Mark Burik (00:01.538)
Hello and welcome to Bitter at Beach. My name is Rick. I'm here with Brandon Joiner and we have a special guest, AVP champion today who is going to show us and tell us how to win AVP championships. And we're also going to talk about her journey from France, starting in tennis and volleyball, navigating the whole NCAA system to try to get here.
how to get the visa and all of that complicated international stuff. And then since she's an all American in two sports, this French girl is an all American in two sports, indoor volleyball and beach volleyball. We're gonna talk about the big differences that she had to make and find in her career when she was making that switch and finding that interest.
So really exciting. And it's our very own Marine Kenna, who is our marketing and email and social media and everything. The camp coordinator, just an all around awesome person and expert and a key part of our team. And yeah, now we finally get to say that we have an AVP champion on our squad. Well done. Good, late pickup.
Brandon Joyner (01:19.415)
about time.
Yeah.
Mark Burik (01:23.662)
I love it. So we're gonna get into that right after just a couple of announcements. If you have not checked out our new website, please head to betteritbeach.com. We have all of our courses currently as standalone opportunities as well as full bundles where you can get all of them. And we've made it really easy to find our private lessons which you can work with a coach one-on-one.
Watch your video together, understand exactly what you're doing wrong, where you should be positioned and the decisions that you're making. So that's been the majority of my time recently is working with my one-on-one athletes. So you can find that at better at beach.com. and camps are coming up November 29th in Punta Cana, all inclusive. We also have, Des Moines, Iowa, July 18th, Bend, Oregon, July 25th.
Santa Rosa, California, August 1st, Chicago, Illinois, August 22nd, Seattle, Washington at the brand new 4th Avenue Beach, September 26th, October 3rd in Youngsville, Louisiana, and in Long Island, New York. I'm coming back home yet again. It's like three or four times a year now. We will be there October 10th. And if you guys have a friends, have friends or volleyball people.
of six or more and you want to get a private training camp, a three day all include, well, not all inclusive, but all training, uh, all the training and playing you can get within AVP player or coach. are running private camps. So if you know five friends or more, and you want to have a really fun weekend, all staying at the same place.
If you guys don't know, I've got a Airbnb in Florida with a nice little volleyball court back there and a gigantic hot tub swim spa. So you and your crew can all come out and spend some time with me or Brandon or maybe Marine or Logan Weber or DJ, JM or Allie. And we will have a great time at that volleyball Airbnb and get a full weekend of training in. Marine.
Mark Burik (03:40.278)
Is this your first title?
Marine Kinna (03:45.222)
Yeah, I guess.
Mark Burik (03:46.348)
on the ABV. So you had to win on the world tour first, right? That warmed you up. You just got off of an international trip, cleaning up on the French tour, getting your first medals on the FIVB tour and then came straight through and won this contender event. So where do you see, do you think that this was just a part of your growing evolution as a player? Or do you think that something really different just came and
Brandon Joyner (03:49.293)
Thank
Marine Kinna (03:49.756)
Good vote.
Mark Burik (04:16.28)
clicked at the last moment. Like was it steady progression through this or did something major change and now we're always in metal contention.
Marine Kinna (04:27.1)
I want to say a little bit of both. On the World Tour, mean, since you have to play with your country, I have to play with a French player and we don't have a lot of players. So this time around, that was the first time I was playing on a World Tour as a left side blocker. And I was playing with a really good right side defender. And I think in future events, you can go really far with ball control. So...
When we started playing a tournament, we could see really fast that we had the level to go for the medals. But I mean, everyone is good on the World Tour, but I think mentally also, I stopped chasing it. I was just like, I'm happy to be here. I just take one game at a time. I obviously won with a medal, but yeah, I knew that it was possible, but I should not like wait for it. But...
I also kept telling myself that I already won. So I was just like, oh, I already won. Like, oh, we're winning. And honestly, it worked. So I did the same thing for Virginia. was like, oh, we're winning. I just kept telling myself we're going to win. And so I don't know. I think it's also maybe took some stress out of myself. Instead of like hoping for something, I was just like, oh, it's.
Mark Burik (05:35.086)
haha
Marine Kinna (05:54.338)
it already happened. But I was definitely more stressed on when I got my first medal in Italy, like a month ago, because it was my first one. And I was like, finally, like, this is kind of like, finally get something. But and two weeks after when we get the gold in Germany, I was like, cool, I can keep like, doing this. But
Mark Burik (06:18.218)
Yeah.
you
Marine Kinna (06:22.044)
I definitely feel like the first one was a little more, I was more emotional and I knew that even like we, on the first one, we lost the semi-final, like 18, 16 tie break. So we could have made it to the final, you know? So that was, that really took a hit because I was like, Oh my God, again, like I didn't make it. But then once we finally won the third, I was like, okay, like I made the extra step. Now I'm like.
Mark Burik (06:35.373)
Mm.
Marine Kinna (06:49.636)
I took a step into my career and maybe it's not nothing for some people, but I think just kind of validated my work that I put in all the years.
Mark Burik (07:02.446)
Could you just give me a brief one minute for everybody who's listening to tell me what the difference is between all of these tournaments and like your look at the level. So you've got French national tour, which I played two tournaments on the French national tour a long time ago with Pierre Basset. Shout out to him if he ever listens to us and anybody in France who knows Pierre, he was like top.
three or four teams in France for a very long time. And now he's in his backyard cutting trees for a living, which he absolutely loves. But French tour futures and then AVP contender and then maybe compare that to the foot to the full like heritage AVP and the next levels of the world tour. So what's your take on all of those in the levels?
Marine Kinna (07:51.526)
Mm-hmm.
Marine Kinna (07:54.908)
so, I mean, it obviously depends on where the tournament is. think in France, it's good level, but you can easily, easily go far. Like if you practice all year, you can easily go past the summer final pretty easily.
We don't have as much players in France that plays like all year long. The girls that do play all year long, like they're good players, but it's not compared to,
The US, think, I mean, in the US, especially California, you can play all year long and now with the college system, like the girls are starting so young that the level is good really fast. And we also have more resources in the US for coaches and everything. Compared to France, don't have as much of like high level coaches, I want to say.
Mark Burik (08:39.63)
Mm.
Mark Burik (08:53.89)
which is like a little bit wild because you guys have such strong national teams for indoor. And I know that there's a beach threes in France, which according to some of my friends and sources is significantly more popular than two on two. Is that true?
Marine Kinna (08:59.537)
Yeah.
Marine Kinna (09:15.164)
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's the threes. It's really fun because there's no rules. So all the indoor players that finish their season, they want to play threes because they can hit, you can set, whatever you can put, you can dunk the ball. So it's pretty fun to watch and you still get a little bit of beach because you're on the sand, it's only three people, but there's no beach rules.
So I think that's why it's a little more popular, but it's only for fun. Like nobody really takes it like that seriously, I want to say. but.
Mark Burik (09:52.878)
Okay. So there's no like major money tournaments, stands or anything.
Marine Kinna (09:59.836)
There is, there is like a couple where you can make money, but it's still like party, price money. Like I actually played, there was a tournament in my city, like where I'm from, the week before Virginia. And I played, there was a twos and threes at the same time. So you can play both and we won the threes.
Our threes looked really, really simple, unfortunately, like, perfect compared to other teams. It was really like pass, set, hit. And when you see real threes, it's like, shoot, push. It's really like, it's kind of fun, honestly, to play, but it's a little more indoor, I want to say, just that you're on the beach.
Mark Burik (10:46.178)
Okay. Kind of like watching the out of the out of system boys or the, or the cupcake crew from, from Colorado, just winging it across the court and running fun plays.
Marine Kinna (10:53.485)
Yeah. Yeah.
Marine Kinna (10:57.878)
Yeah, that's kind of how it is really.
Brandon Joyner (11:01.484)
Do you?
Mark Burik (11:01.634)
I wonder if that's kind of like futsal in Brazil where, you know, it gives you a little bit of, cause I think it was, maybe it was Ingepeth who was talking about like how much fun it is to play threes on the beach in the off season out there.
Marine Kinna (11:16.452)
he used to play threes all the time. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I played with him and his brother when I was like 12 because we're really good family friends for like a local tournament. He used to be, he's the best threes player. Really. So good. He could have been such an amazing beach player and get bit. But I think there's more money in Zora. Yeah.
Mark Burik (11:18.763)
Really?
Mark Burik (11:25.176)
Ha.
Mark Burik (11:37.058)
Maybe he's going to pull a read pretty soon. Who knows? Yeah.
Brandon Joyner (11:39.533)
Yeah.
Hey, Maureen, do you think that you're, I've kind of always seen this a little bit and like, I'm wondering if it happened a little bit with the guys and girls that when played in the fours tournament that was in Houston a couple of weeks ago. the offensive idea that you need in threes of like, because I think there's a little bit more hitting when, when there's more people on the court. And what I've seen is like.
Marine Kinna (11:45.787)
you
Marine Kinna (12:10.992)
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Joyner (12:14.975)
Anytime that I've played in like a threes event or a fours event, especially if I've been hitting a lot, I've seen that like offensive confidence show up more in my beach game. Did you, did you feel anything like that after playing in that threes event and then going back onto a court with two people?
Mark Burik (12:28.174)
Mmm.
Marine Kinna (12:35.836)
Yeah, honestly, yes, especially because also like I've been playing right side on twos like for a couple years now. And when I switch to left, like I played indoor as a left side and I think that any right side hitter is better on the left, like out of system and everything. I think you can hit harder on the left no matter what. But
I feel like you're also when you play threes, like you have to find other spots that are usually free when you play twos, you know, it's harder to score. So I was definitely more aggressive on the threes that I'm usually when I play twos.
Brandon Joyner (13:15.413)
And did you see any of that translate into the Virginia tournament or did you kind of go back to your normal like to style?
Marine Kinna (13:23.68)
no, I felt like I kind of stayed aggressive, but I also felt like that's when I switched when I played a little bit more left. I was like, why am I not playing like this on the right type of thing? Like, why am I not always that aggressive? so I think that's just, yeah, it kind of kept me confident for Virginia.
Mark Burik (13:45.714)
Here's a tough question for both of you for, I think this is like for the listeners, something super important and something they all wrestle with the left versus right. Like people who say I'm a right side player, I need a left side. I'm a left side player. I'm terrible from the right side. And I have played with players who are significantly better on one side. I remember playing with Shane Donahue.
Brandon Joyner (13:55.277)
.
Mark Burik (14:13.334)
I put him on the right side because I wanted to play left and he was trash. Like we were about to get knocked out in the first round of playoffs in a New York tournament. And he goes, can you stop challenging me and let me play my good side? And we did. And we just came back like super quick. He was just way more comfortable with his swings and his kills. I think I'm a little bit better on the right. When you look at Logan Weber and Hagen, I don't know.
Brandon Joyner (14:27.469)
you
Mark Burik (14:42.402)
was the confluence of me telling them two years ago and maybe Brandon, putting pressure on them this year or they just finally like took a guess at the stats because we saw that Logan was invincible when he went from left to right. He had like a 10 % higher hitting percentage. And then the big debate is, well, was he able to go back to the right because he had a perfect pass. So that's what allowed for a higher hitting percentage or
Do we just experiment with it and see how it goes? And now that he's on the right, they've been dominating. Marine, you've now made a switch and you're doing well. So is it that important? What side you play and how do you figure that out? without it being a gamble that you lose on.
Brandon Joyner (15:36.237)
Go ahead, Mary.
Mark Burik (15:36.473)
question
Marine Kinna (15:37.628)
Which is actually really funny because when I got to LMU, I got recruited as a left side blocker and I ended up playing the whole season right side defender. I think being versatile and being able to do both is great. I think everyone has good things on both sides and bad things on both sides. I think personally I'm a better hitter on the left but I think I'm a better shooter on the right. I have a better cut on the right.
I have better vision on the left. it's like, but knowing that I can adapt, I rather my partner pick whatever they prefer. But at the end, think definitely passing, but I do think that you can pass. If you practice something, think you're going to be fine on both sides. It's really about practice.
Mark Burik (16:30.53)
You think people are better passers on left or right? I feel like that's one of the neutral skills that like, no, there can't be a difference here for people. Of course, we could always look at everybody's individual stats and whether it's in their head, but I don't know.
Marine Kinna (16:43.324)
Mm-hmm.
Marine Kinna (16:47.868)
I know, think the passing on the left, kicking out, is more like a rhythm, you know? And then you can really go into your approach on the left, I mean, and on the right you have to pass, kick in. I don't know, I think it's... Some people are better passers, they feel like their location is better in a certain way for their setters, I think, but at the end I do think that anyone can play anywhere if they practice it. Like...
Mark Burik (16:52.557)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Burik (16:59.328)
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Joyner (17:13.473)
Yeah, I think, I think the practice is that's where it comes in. You know, like I, think I went through kind of a weird transition where.
Like when I was playing against not as solid competition, I felt like I could manage left side or right side. didn't really matter what side I was on. But once I got up to like the higher level, I think I had to lean on to like, Mark, maybe for you passing is a huge idea because you were like an amazing passer in college. Like you were a libero, right? Like you, and you had to be in order to be on the court. Um, if you weren't that, you probably wouldn't.
Marine Kinna (17:47.014)
you
Mark Burik (17:50.488)
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Joyner (17:53.037)
You would have never been out there.
Mark Burik (17:54.702)
Yeah, I think I was there for my defense and then passing came along later.
Brandon Joyner (17:58.349)
Like for me being a setter, like I was really used to that ball crossing my eye from like the left side left to right. And so once I like got up to a level where I had to be like my errors had to be a lot more minimal. And so being able like when you and I play together, even though you liked being on the right side and I liked being on the right side, we put me on the right side.
Mark Burik (18:08.11)
Mmm.
Brandon Joyner (18:25.899)
just because I felt that much more confident having that ball cross from my left to the right rather than right to the left. And I don't know, maybe that's something that kind of happens with some people. I do think that the passing is significantly different. I think on the right side, I can pass a little bit more in front of me, whereas left, I have to angle a little bit more. And that's just me, but...
Like again, I didn't have where you were in college were getting hundreds of thousands of reps per month of passing. I was doing the same thing with setting. So like when I came out to the beach, I had to teach myself how to pass. and so, yeah, it was a little, a little different. So.
Mark Burik (19:16.014)
And Marina, I was talking to DJ just on Instagram, because we're talking about his left side and his offensive choices. And one of the things that a couple of French coaches that I've paid attention to. So and these guys are tennis coaches. And I know that some of the national team just has this discussion that is just not a conversation in the US is eye dominance.
which is your dominant eye? And if you guys don't know how to test your dominant eye, you can just Google how to easy test for your eye dominance. Basically, yeah, you hold a little tiny little triangle with your hands in front of your eyes, look both and then take that view and then close one eye at a time. And whichever eye keeps the same view through your holes, through that hole in your hand, that's the eye that's dominant. That's the one that's like taking over.
Brandon Joyner (20:08.173)
It's really cool.
Mark Burik (20:11.958)
And so in tennis, this completely changes if you have an open stance or a closed stance for serve receivers, like apparently they don't want two guys next to each other where their non-dominant eye is in the seam because that becomes a vacuum. And I really want to see a good study run on people who are playing right side or left side.
their approach angles and which eye is done on it. Because if I'm on the left, but I see better with my right eye and I take this hard angle where my, left side of my face is the one that's looking at the court and feeling the blocker, but that's not the eye that actually focuses and looks. Am I going to see the defense and the blocker way worse taking a hard angle than I would being straight on because I'm
right eye dominant. So when I come in from the right, I don't like to hide my shoulder into the court. I like to make sure that my chest is facing pretty hard middle so that I can see everything. And I feel like my vision is so much better on the right. And I don't know, cause you know, it's a statistical set of one player, but I don't know if that's because, I so much, right. Just with the partners that I've had, or if it really has to do with
the eye dominance. And so I think that that's an unexplored avenue for beach players that could make a really significant difference. Of course, it takes experimenting a lot of stats. And then do you need to pay attention to your eye dominance and according to your approach angle? Maybe like maybe that's this untapped resource, but have you
heard like eye dominance discussions because the two coaches that I've heard that from are both French. One of them's indoor, like national team, national level, while back. And then the other one is Patrick Moore to glow. He's like the world's most popular tennis coach.
Marine Kinna (22:21.146)
I definitely heard about eye dominance and I, now that I think about it, that makes, I agree. You know, I do think that like, for example, like me personally, feel like I'm, I see better on the left, but I know like my eye dominance is my left eye. And I have, I feel like I'm not as good at the vision the right, but doesn't mean I can do it. Doesn't mean I can see it's just that out of system wise, I'll have a better.
Brandon Joyner (22:46.751)
Hahaha
Marine Kinna (22:51.034)
But I do agree, I think that would be really interesting to test it out because I felt like that could be true. If it's true in tennis, tennis and volleyball have so much similarities that I feel like that could, it's a ball, like you follow a ball, so for sure, I don't know.
Mark Burik (23:01.198)
you
Mark Burik (23:07.578)
Mm Yeah. Yeah. You follow the ball at the same time. They're also tracking the defense. So, yeah, like I said, if you're left the left side of your face and your hips are open to the center, which we can have a whole discussion about that and how it's over translated into coaches. But like it should be open to the set with vision on the court, not necessarily open to the center, open to the set, different discussion. But that's I think it's something worth exploring for people.
Marine Kinna (23:11.856)
Yeah.
Marine Kinna (23:21.244)
you
Mark Burik (23:36.632)
for vision because you can, if you are left eye dominant or sorry, if you're right eye dominant and you play the left side, like you can still see the court, but you might need a flatter approach. One that's more up and down instead of at an angle. And there are a lot of players that take that kind of straighter on approach. Some people kick way out sharp angle and they do it well. But if you find yourself
really struggling or you're not siding out as well on the left side as you do on the right. Consider instead of getting all of that space that you normally do and coming in at a hard, hard angle, it's worth it. Trying to just flatten out your approach and going straight on and maybe not kicking out so that you get that massive hitting window. Maybe you just ask your center to keep it real skinny. So it still ends up on your right arm. And then you, you have that vision available. So that's, mean,
We can do a whole discussion on that.
Brandon Joyner (24:33.997)
That was one of my biggest learnings from Thomas in college was really figuring out that I was right eye dominant and I was a setter. like, I was always squared up to the outside pen and I had to realize that like I had to delay my touch to allow that ball to cross into my, right side of my body in order to have a correct finish. So like I had a lot of,
Mark Burik (24:40.174)
Mm.
Brandon Joyner (25:03.873)
which I'm sure you can agree with. had a lot of my decision-making at the beginning of my career was very good, but my location wasn't really that great. And then I worked with Thomas and I found that this ball was along with a million things. have my whole volleyball career to thank for this guy. But the biggest thing with me finding out location accuracy was allowing this ball to drop to my right side of my face before I made my set because
Mark Burik (25:21.07)
You
Brandon Joyner (25:32.639)
I was right eye dominant and a lot of my sets I was taking from the passers and then trying to finish. So was never truly finding the ball. So yeah, it's, definitely, I've done a lot of, a lot of work with it and it's, it, like completely changed my game and indoor. I don't know. I think with beach, kind of naturally came, especially with me being on the right side a lot. but yeah, it was, it was definitely cool. That's a cool conversation. I would like to.
Marine Kinna (25:40.796)
you
Marine Kinna (25:56.508)
Yeah.
Brandon Joyner (25:59.381)
somehow talk to somebody else and who's an expert and try to figure out more of that.
Mark Burik (26:04.096)
Or let's maybe we can just run a poll of all the AVP and FIVB players, have them do this, simple hand test for their dominance and then see their, see what happens.
Brandon Joyner (26:12.876)
Yeah.
Brandon Joyner (26:16.427)
Yeah, like I could almost guarantee if we like one person that I think about who always kicks out is try and like I can almost guarantee he's probably left eye dominant. You know, like Troy who has like more of a straight on approach. I bet he's probably more right eye dominant. Like that would be really cool. I'll have to text those guys and see maybe if we can get some answers from those two. yeah.
Marine Kinna (26:28.529)
Thank
Marine Kinna (26:41.862)
That'd be cool.
Mark Burik (26:41.922)
Yeah.
Brandon Joyner (26:43.857)
have a, I have a quick question. This is kind of backtracking to kind of how we started the episode, but I was kind of thinking about your evolution and the game because you was, were these tournaments, were those your first ones that you had?
Marine Kinna (26:57.596)
This year?
Brandon Joyner (27:03.405)
or even like since you've been in California.
Marine Kinna (27:09.816)
I it was first of the year, but last year I Laguna. no, since January, yeah, those were my first ones.
Brandon Joyner (27:17.165)
Did you win like CBVAs or anything like that, Laura?
Brandon Joyner (27:24.173)
Okay. Cause I was kind of thinking about that. think it's kind of interesting because like Mark and I, where we grew up on the East coast, we got to play in like a lot of these local tournaments. And I'm sure the confidence that we had as volleyball players came, a lot of it came from winning those small tournaments. But I was just thinking about you coming from college where it's kind of an interesting format of like, you're a part of a team.
Sometimes you guys win match it or like win, what do they call them? A duel, you win a duel, but sometimes you can lose your game. And then moving straight into like CBBAs are tough out here. There's a lot of competition and it's just an interesting tournament. So when you were talking about your confidence and...
Marine Kinna (27:58.972)
doors.
Mark Burik (27:59.8)
North.
Marine Kinna (28:03.546)
Yeah, it's still in.
Brandon Joyner (28:19.573)
going into your events of being like, already won. Like, how did you get to that point? And like, did anything happen prior to the last couple years that you decided like, I need to make this change or like, did you read something or something come up that really made you start thinking about tournaments that way?
Marine Kinna (28:43.92)
Yeah, I mean, I, so after my first year at LMU, that's when I started playing on the world tour. And when I came at LMU, I had no expectation. I just wanted to play, never got coached in beach volleyball. I was like, I'm just, I want to make the five, you know.
And then, so I have no expectation, don't know any of the girls that I'm playing against. was like, okay, this is just, I just, I'm competitive. You know, I just want to win. I don't know. I'm not scared of anyone because I don't know anyone. that like, um, so that, that first.
Mark Burik (29:13.038)
You
Marine Kinna (29:19.544)
Season I mean it was great because really I had no expectation of myself You know and just the fact that I was like exceeding like other people's expectation I was like well great so when I went on the world tour I came out from such a high we finished like third at national or something and My and I was already in season since January and so I came in France in May
And I was like so ready to go on a world tour. was like, I was in a winning mode, like we're going to win. Blah, blah, blah. We go and then my partner at the time, we were such on a different like headspace, you know, like for me, I've been in season for four months. For her, it's the beginning of her season. You know, so just like just a big difference of like where we at was really tough. I can like...
Mark Burik (29:48.43)
Thank you.
Marine Kinna (30:13.318)
down like from such a high and such when I started on WorldStyle I was like I such high expectation of myself I was like I want to win I want to get a medal and I kept getting disappointed you know I was like it was such
emotionally so hard like to to just be like keep losing like we're doing good like for the world tour like we were for a first year like we were getting fifth like we're kind of stuck at the fifth line all the time we did so many events and like fifth fifth fifth or like ninth fifth fifth never past a quarter so and then the year after was what last year
Mark Burik (30:39.288)
Whoa.
Marine Kinna (30:58.044)
we passed the quarter for first time. So it was like already there, like doing that first year and second year, I was like, okay, the goal is pass the quarter, pass the quarter, pass the quarter. And then pass the quarter, finish fourth. So you're like, you know, like you're so close, you're like, you feel it. then I also, and then I third that year, so last year,
Brandon Joyner (31:16.428)
Yeah.
Marine Kinna (31:24.604)
I decided to stop playing with the partner I was playing with because I think for me mentally I was, I really had high expectation and it was just, I was not meeting my expectation. I was like, okay, I a break. I'm going to stop. I stopped playing volleyball for three months. I completely didn't. And then, um, and then
Mark Burik (31:43.918)
Very miles partain of you.
Marine Kinna (31:52.921)
I got the news that I was allowed to play AVPs now. So that kind of gave me something else to pursue, another motivation. I had more opportunities with partners. And from there, then I was like, okay, that's it. I have nothing to prove again. So it's like, okay, last year, first season, official season of AVP, I qualified for all the events.
Three different partners. So with I qualified Huntington Devons Sauer, we have one practice before the tournament. We both were like, okay, let's just do it. And then, so that was so fun, you know? And then when I saw that I was able to do that, and since I saw that, my mentality was just like, let's go for it. We'll see what happens. And I was like, okay, I need to keep that way because this is when I play my best, this is when I'm not.
Brandon Joyner (32:24.39)
Thank
Mark Burik (32:37.162)
yeah.
Marine Kinna (32:47.266)
worried too much. And then when I just started to tell myself on the water, I was like, okay, we're winning. Like that's it. Like I'm fine. Like we're already winning by being here. You know, I think that that really helped me like just stay calm the entire
Brandon Joyner (32:48.631)
Mm-hmm.
Brandon Joyner (33:06.987)
I love that.
Mark Burik (33:07.202)
How do you get yourself to stop worrying? Like, so we have, mean, I know the tools that we have and we give to our athletes. We have our Mastering the Volleyball Mind course, which for me turned out like after I built it and then followed it myself along with some mantras and then just like quiet, calm confidence. There was a a big shift in my energy conservation and efficiency and not getting wrapped up because after so long.
You just, you start to look at yourself and those voices creep in of like, how much time have you given to this? And this is all I've done. Like this is where I'm at and I can't get over this hump. then for me that, that mental course really helped a lot with my side out. but when you specifically are in that mode of teetering on losing confidence,
Why am I here? I can't believe I've got this many hours behind this sport and I, know, this is my finish, which for you, it's at a completely different level. But for everybody at home who's a BA, AA open player and getting those same finishes, I can guarantee you, I 100 % promise you that even at the AVP, when people are the top 10, five teams in the country, their minds go through the exact same self doubt process. Like don't think that they're any different.
than you are when you're, you know, about to like maybe lose to go to the playoffs in your B-turn. Those questions still come in in the same way for pros, but for you specifically, Marine, how do you fight that or how do you calm yourself down? Because that's not an easy thing to do to say, yeah, I want to win, I expect to win, but I can't need it too bad. So what are you telling yourself? What was the mental change?
Marine Kinna (35:05.606)
I think my biggest mental change was to stop thinking that I'm expected to win against a team. You know, like, like this team is lower level, you know, then I should beat them. Like, I should beat this team. I should beat that. Like, I was just like, everyone the same.
Brandon Joyner (35:18.893)
Mm-hmm.
Marine Kinna (35:26.606)
And then I'm just going to focus on my game. And from there, then I think my focus was just like on myself and like my partner, like what we're supposed to do. And then once the game started and you figure that out, I think it's pretty smooth. But if I start worrying about, like I shouldn't lose against them, then that's when I'm like getting stressed, like my body gets tense and everything. So.
Yeah, so just telling myself that anyone can beat me, you know, like anyone is everyone is good. I just tell myself that everyone is good. Then I should just focus on my game. And like based on that, that really like helps me not to worry too much. And obviously it still happens. Like there's always moments of doubt when I'm like, like, I'm like, like I should beat them. But I'm like, they're also like playing a good game, you know, like it's just like self reminded that.
Obviously everyone wants to win and I can always expect that I should beat people.
Brandon Joyner (36:30.177)
Yeah.
Mark Burik (36:30.455)
Well, we see that all the time, right? Like that definitely happened decades ago with me and Hudson were all right. You're in the main draw. Now you play a team out of the qualifier just because you've been in the main draw for like two or three tournaments. You think that you're above this level. we saw it with, even Evan Corey and Logan, where they just absolutely dominated the contender series. and then there.
solidified in the main draw. And now they're like kind of dropping to those lower level teams for a bit. And you saw the frustration build with them. So it's really hard to be proud of what you've done and where you're at, but also not say, this is a team I'm expected to beat. If you have that, then any lost point just eats at you, you know, and it builds that huge frustration, but in point when you're doing it,
How do you bring yourself back to that? When you say, wanna focus on our side, I wanna focus on me, could you unpack that a little bit and what is the actual conversation that happens in the back of your mind and then how do you get out of it or steer it?
Marine Kinna (37:30.385)
Mm-hmm.
Marine Kinna (37:42.586)
Yeah, I think it's, I like to communicate a lot with my partners. Like I definitely cannot do this alone. And I'm pretty vocal about before the games or before who I play, like before who I'm going to play the season with, we talk about like, okay, if I'm struggling.
How do you want me to communicate with you? Like, how can I help you when I'm struggling? Or the same thing for me, because I think during a game, if you haven't had the conversation, it's not the moment to have it. You should already know how to interact with your partner, know yourself. How can other people help you get out of your zone? So for me personally, it's definitely...
Brandon Joyner (38:16.107)
Thank
Marine Kinna (38:27.9)
focusing on the little thing. I'm like, okay, I'm just going to pass the ball first. Like then I'm going to call a set and then I'm going to ask my partner to be really loud on their call. So I really going to help me get like more confidence, you know, and that will help me get out of it to slowly start scoring. For example.
But I know that, for example, if my partner is struggling, I like to really give them exactly what they're doing in defense. That's my focus point most of the time. It's like I can see what the other defense is doing really well. So I'm going to tell my partner, hey, they're always doing this. This is open. If it's open, I'm going to tell you this word, for example. And just focusing on those little things really help us just move on.
Mark Burik (39:15.95)
Mm.
Marine Kinna (39:16.924)
But also like taking the time between points when I'm stressed like this is a time that I'm gonna fix the line. I'm gonna go clean my sunglasses, you know, and sometimes like for example, this happened this past weekend, like I was getting served, we were up by a lot and then they were getting back and I was like frustrated and I was like...
Chloe, go clean your sunglasses. I was like, it was super hot. was like, just go clean your sunglasses because it's like that will help me reset. And she was like, okay. And then go clean her sunglasses. You know, but like those little things I think helps me personally. But I think it starts by knowing your partner and like having that like team chemistry. And I've talked a lot about to Chloe about that is like.
Brandon Joyner (39:44.459)
Thank
Mark Burik (39:44.512)
No.
Marine Kinna (40:06.65)
By playing with multiple people, I realized that for me, when I play my best is when I play with someone that I enjoy being with outside the court too. And it's not easy, know, and it's like, I obviously like when you travel, you spend so much time with that person, but it's really hard for me like to.
Mark Burik (40:15.063)
Ha ha.
Marine Kinna (40:28.982)
be with someone that I don't like, you know, for example, on the court, when you're with someone that you appreciate on the court, I think you really care about like, you have the same goals, you know, you really care about each other. And
I always tell Chloe that no matter how we say what we say, we have to think of each other. We always want the best for each other. We have the same goal. We always want to win. So this is what I keep telling myself. And I think it really starts by communicating with your partner so they can help you when you struggle.
Mark Burik (41:04.406)
Yeah, and help you in the way that you want to be helped, right?
Marine Kinna (41:07.452)
Yeah, exactly. Like for example, like for me, I do not need someone to be like, oh, poor Maureen, it's okay. No, I'm like, yeah. Like I like to be like, kind of like shake up, like, hey, like get out of your head. Like this is what you need to do. You know, that will help me more than someone that's just like, oh.
Mark Burik (41:16.398)
That's why you got DJ on your team.
Marine Kinna (41:33.884)
Next one, like, it's okay. But I know some people need that, you know, some people need to be reassured. But at the end of the day, it's just like, knowing yourself as a player, that's the first step.
Brandon Joyner (41:48.15)
I just, the last, I mean, I got lucky to work with you and Chloe for a couple of weeks before she got hurt. And then she kind of, took some time off. But one of the things that I really enjoyed about you guys was, and I, and I think it, it, hopefully it kind of established a little bit of confidence on y'all's end. But at the beginning, like the first.
two or three practices that I had with you guys. I was just, I really tried to get the point across of like, hey, like we're not here to win practice. Like we're here to work on small things. We're gonna make errors. We're going to do, we're going to make mistakes. But as long as we're kind of working towards something new, then that's the way to improve. know, I think a lot of the teams on the AVP,
they just continue to try to do the same thing, right? And then they get, they get the same results and then they're confused. Why they're like, I'm putting in all this time. But like, if the time isn't put in the right direction, then you're just, you're just kind of wasting time. And I think for you guys, one of the things I was really proud of is like, I was able to have those really small conversations and we were able to have like,
Mark Burik (42:50.69)
We get this.
Brandon Joyner (43:13.857)
we were able to find small wins, like thinking about Chloe and her like block timing and like when she should peel and when she should stay. Had a lot of conversations with you, actually you and Chloe about like, what should our hand contacts feel like? When should we be going for balls and stuff like that? And then like you and I had some good like defensive chats as well. And I think like that's when the game gets fun.
You know, so like when I hear you talking about all this confidence stuff and making yourself believe, like telling yourself that you've already won and then going into the game without pressure, it allows you to find a way to trust that experimentation that you've done in practice. And once, once we kind of established that experimenting, we, you started seeing like
We had our first couple of practices where we weren't necessarily like, weren't blowing teams away or anything like that. But then all of sudden things started clicking. And then it was like, wow, like we're finding a next level. And so I think like, especially for the people listening, like be willing to try new things at practice. Like it could, it could have, we, probably could have found a lot of things that didn't work, you know? I think we were pretty lucky in finding a lot of things that did work, which was pretty cool.
Mark Burik (44:19.182)
Hmm.
Marine Kinna (44:35.772)
you
Brandon Joyner (44:37.005)
but something that I say a lot to our campers, especially, and I was, I portrayed this a lot to you guys and to Logan and Hagen is like the game of volleyball is funny and in the way that it, corrects itself a lot. And so even though you, might be going through a timeframe where you're not seeing the results that you're hoping for or anything like that, like
Mark Burik (44:38.766)
in your eyes today.
Brandon Joyner (45:05.963)
That's where trusting the process, feeling and like almost inviting that stage of uncomfortability is so worth it because the game will correct itself eventually. You know, and so I think like I'm proud of you for like really sitting in that. And then it's also really cool. It normally, I would say it doesn't happen as quick as it did with you where
Mark Burik (45:20.163)
Mm.
Brandon Joyner (45:35.115)
You put in all that work and then like the first time you go overseas, you win all these tournaments. But I think it is evidence that kind of supports that idea of like, hey, trust the process, invite uncomfortability. And then that's when you see that next level reached. Yeah, it's it's cool to witness on this side because like, obviously we've known you for a couple of years as like a coach and as a person.
Mark Burik (45:45.006)
and support.
Brandon Joyner (46:04.845)
I got to know you a lot better this year in the off or in like the preseason as a player. And it was really cool to see how quick that transition was. So yeah, it's fun. I think it's really cool. I hope you can continue to find ways to kind of sink into that mindset. It seems to be working.
Mark Burik (46:05.646)
I got to go.
Mark Burik (46:26.584)
And
Marine Kinna (46:26.766)
Yeah, no, but I definitely, sorry, I just want to add something. I agree that what you were saying about finding a small wins at practice and being uncomfortable at practice, because that's something we used to do a lot at LMU. And then when it came to competition, you're like, okay, that's so much easier than practice, like mentally, you know.
Brandon Joyner (46:48.086)
Right.
Marine Kinna (46:50.136)
So, and I do agree that with Chloe and then we had that conversation, like all three of us, like, Hey, like we need small focuses. Otherwise we feel like we're not feeling that we're working on something, you know, and like really have those small focuses to have those little wins really helped us, I think, move on to the next level. But I think also something that kind of made a switch. It's like when Chloe got hurt, like she kind of expected me to drop her. And I was like,
I'm not going anywhere. I was like, I want to play with you, you know? And I think that also helped us kind of, that we believed in each other, that we believed in our team. I think it's huge, you And we had you, I think it was a great start. And then hopefully we can keep working together later this summer.
Mark Burik (47:20.63)
Hehehehe
Brandon Joyner (47:43.383)
Yeah. And just.
Mark Burik (47:45.56)
We're going through the exact same thing with some working with two AA guys on their fixing their arm swings and they're, you know, they'll ping one and we finally hear the Z's on the ball. Like when they hit it, the difference when they, when they finally use the mechanics and connect with the balls, like you can actually hear the difference and, but then they'll go through 10 more swings and they get super frustrated that it's like, well, it's not working. I can't find it again. I can't find it again. And
This is like a relationships talk. Like if we subbed out volleyball for everything, this is a relationships talk because you saying like, yeah, when things go wrong, I'm not leaving. Like imagine feeling that in your relationship or when you're first dating or even in marriage, it's like, no, we're in it for life. We just have to figure it out. know, that's such a huge thing. And then the ego part of
If it feels good at practice or you had a great practice and you were dominant, did you get better that practice? Like when you are so uncomfortable and you feel like things are ugly and wrong and you're trying things that you haven't tried before and it doesn't feel natural. Well, that's when you're growing the most because even if you are practicing, let's say the wrong things and it is totally uncomfortable and it's not for you. Guess what?
Brandon Joyner (48:51.895)
Mm-hmm.
Mark Burik (49:11.702)
we've eliminated some things that you shouldn't be trying to do, you know, or you just keep doing them until they're comfortable, comfortable, because like, we know that that's the next progression in your level, but beating a team at practice and performing super well, that's probably the practice where you grew the least. And the ones where you're stuck in like this sucks and I hate trying to do this. Like, yeah, that's the discomfort where it's like, it shouldn't feel.
Brandon Joyner (49:17.453)
Thank
Mark Burik (49:40.248)
good during that time because you're trying to change outside of what you're currently doing. And that same thing happens like relationships, like the least comfortable talks that you have with your wife, significant other, those are the important ones to have because that's where you figure each other out and get to the next level of your relationship or your game.
Brandon Joyner (50:01.323)
Yeah. And I think kind of building off of that, welcoming the uncomfortability. And I think you also, you have to understand what kind of player you are. Like it's kind of interesting because like with the two big teams that I'm working with right now with Logan and Hayden, and then I've worked a lot with Marine and Chloe. And I would say like Marine, you and Logan are very similar where
When you start to get to gameplay style stuff, you still like to hear those, technical feedback. You like to hear that small talk kind of conversation. then Chloe and Hagen are kind of similar where I just need to give them a reminder of what they need to focus on throughout the, throughout the game, but also let them know that it's okay to let the dog out and just go, just go compete. Like don't.
extremely focused on being perfect, know that you have the focus, but I also just want you to play. And so, and sometimes I think maybe, maybe it can be a personality thing. I was more of a technical guy, you know, and then once I found my flow, I could move into a little bit more like just play. But I think for players understanding what type of player you are,
That's important as well because at the beginning of the year with and we kind of felt this frustration a little bit with Chloe Where she was like, I feel like I'm just focusing too much on this stuff And I remember we had a practice where it was like, okay next practice I'm gonna give you some stuff that you need to think about but also just go play just go do those things same thing with Hagen and
since we kind of defined ourselves as those kinds of players, I think that's where even another level can be reached of like truly understanding how do you comprehend and then how do you put that out into performance? I think that that's, it's pretty cool in order to understand that. And I think sometimes having that conversation, like hearing you and Chloe go through that conversation with me,
Mark Burik (52:14.38)
of it.
Brandon Joyner (52:17.365)
It was pretty cool because going into it, like I'm, am an extremely technical coach. And so it's hard for me to sit back and be like, okay, just go do it. You know, like I want to, I want to be there to remind, but I also realized that when I was doing that with Chloe, it was almost holding her back a little bit. and so having that conversation apart with all of the relationship and trust and happy or go get it.
kind of conversations, all of those things matter.
Mark Burik (52:50.223)
Well guys, we have got to get going. We've got our member meeting. So we want to go through some of Marine's video in there and our members are wrapping up their setting course and we're getting into our jump and arm swing mechanics block. If you guys wanna join and be a part of that, number one, you could get the standalone course at betteredge.com and work through it on your own.
But if you add on the Inner Circle membership with weekly Q &A's and video submissions, then we get to have these conversations and view your film with you when you submit it to our community. So we're going to break this podcast here with a huge congrats for Maureen on a few successful weeks and warn her from her own inside voice, not to set that as the expectation.
anymore. But just to play free and and play each match like it was its own because we all know that there are millions of other volleyball players coming up and there will be new ones that you've never heard of come out onto your court and they'll be rock stars and you'll expect to beat them but they are just as hungry as you are. So controlling your side of the court and then calming your mind if you need help with the mind part.
Check out the Mastering the Volleyball Mind course where we'll walk you through all of these steps that you should take to gain that confidence and to stay calm in those tough moments. So, are you heading to Denver Marine? Nice.
Brandon Joyner (54:24.941)
Are you heading to danger?
Marine Kinna (54:29.562)
Yeah, playing Denver this weekend. Yeah, back to back.
Brandon Joyner (54:30.477)
Okay, are you doing WPACA as well? Well, so back to back weekend. So got two more chances. If you guys are in Denver for the AVP or you're heading to WPACA, go support our girl.
Mark Burik (54:43.714)
Yeah, and put on the Babs shirt when you're there so we know we got a crew. And if you don't have it, head to betterbeach.com forward slash merch, order your new better beach shirt, and then come out and support Maureen as she continues her streak of domination.
Marine Kinna (54:44.272)
Yes.
Brandon Joyner (54:49.485)
Thank you.
Brandon Joyner (54:55.137)
Yeah.
Mark Burik (54:59.66)
All right. The whole gang here at better at beach. We'll see you on the sand.
Brandon Joyner (55:04.747)
Bye bye.
