Evan Silberstein (00:00:00):
Every kid in her freshman year kind of wants to cry to mom one way or the other in October and
Mark Burik (00:00:05):
Or knows I did.
Evan Silberstein (00:00:06):
It's just pretty normal. Um, yeah. You know, I get it. I think we've all been there. So, but when, if that's a five or six hour difference, that's, it's a hard thing to manage. So I've heard that usually it's more them giving it to me. We've got an athlete that's in, you know, Julia skulls plays, but now she's gonna go to SC cuz she just wants a new experience. She just wants to be closer to home. It's just too far. They loved it. What grade she graduated. But eh, at this point I'm gonna pull a little tighter in, at those moments you, we just kind of bless them and say, yeah, good luck you do your path. Cause one thing we know we don't want is someone who doesn't not gonna wanna be here. And if you get homesick enough, that starts to add up and that's not good for me because now it's just more to manage for everyone. When athletes are just uncomfortable at that level at that kind of survival level.
Mark Burik (00:00:56):
My name is Mark Burik. And here on this podcast, we talk about everything and anything that helps you as a player or coach get better at beach volleyball. We have camps, clinics classes, online courses, online training programs and vertical max program. So anything that you are looking for as far as tools that will help you in your game, we've got it and lucky for you. We get interviews with really cool high level people like we have today. So I do wanna introduce the person on the screen next to me if you're watching this or you know, behind the speakers, if you're listening to the podcast, but this is the university of Hawaii, interim head coach, Evan Silberstein. Evan. Welcome buddy.
Evan Silberstein (00:01:40):
Thanks mark. Appreciate, uh, having me on, I'm excited to have a good conversation to help people get better at beach.
Mark Burik (00:01:46):
Hell. Yeah. I wanna know. As far as an NCAA coach of a, you know, a prestigious program, what was your day like today? And what date is today? Today is June 8th. What was your day like today?
Evan Silberstein (00:01:58):
June 8th. I mean it's summer. So we're in a different mode, definitely preparation for recruiting. We got the big recruiting deadline comes up or kind of like timeline on June 15th. We move over, um, and open up for recruits and the 20, 24 class and continuing to make preparation communication with talking to different people, uh, getting my own kind of focus, ready for a trip next week, finalizing some travel for next week, gonna be in California. I'm excited about that. Um, come see some great up and coming athletes. Other than that, uh, got up and bounced on the trampoline a little bit, had myself a smoothie. Uh, I take my little e-bike down the side
Mark Burik (00:02:32):
There. Tony Robbins of you. I like it. yeah,
Evan Silberstein (00:02:35):
So I got a totally, I got my, my rebounder is the way to go and uh, I got a little electric bike, so I, I have a really beautiful commute for those that know Manah valley kind of sits over, you know, it's like above Waikiki. It's a beautiful kind of place on the island here on Oahu. So I, I ride an electric bike. Down's about seven minute commute, real easy from our home on the stream, down to the courts and had some support, uh, just last week, brought some sand in, we got new sand for the courts. So that was exciting. Had someone out there kind of smoothing it out, adding sand, we got a lot of wind in the valley, so we've lost a lot. So just a quick little monitor on the courts, excited to kind of see the sand, getting smoothed out and kind of spread out and kind of adding that piece and then, uh, into the office for incoming 20, 22, just as an international student athlete. So we're kind of getting her stuff proved and ready, um, to do that. So working with the administration, um, some of our academic services for a late ad there and then hopped on a call with Kathy Debe from the BCA. Oh yeah. All the other coaches, um, from D one coaches, we're talking about a lot of the, what the transformation committee has got going on their NCAA is changing the rules,
Mark Burik (00:03:47):
Changing the rules in terms of NCAA for all athletes or just beach volleyball. What's going on there.
Evan Silberstein (00:03:51):
It's everything right now. So it's called the transformation community and everyone's like, the NCAA moves really slow in this case, they're moving really fast. They, you know, you may have heard or folks, you know, out there listening, you may have heard that there was a big change to the constitution in the last year. Obviously everyone's kind of getting used to the name image and likeness, the ni L stuff. So that's a really big groundswell change. And then the concept before
Mark Burik (00:04:15):
We, uh, before we sprint through that, could you, could you just unpack that and, and talk about what, what it means now to be, uh, a division one athlete in terms of what it used to be with name, image, likeness, and, and what the rules are now?
Evan Silberstein (00:04:26):
Yeah, that's kind of the watershed change is the N I L and it allows athletes to benefit from their name, image and likeness and each institution. And each state kind of has its own way of doing that right now. So it's a little bit of a wild west situation relative to, you might hear about a quarterback that went to Ohio state and he's making a million bucks. So it's, it's kind of the bigger sports or the ones that are there, but you're also, so yeah, big changes at the NCAA. And what we're discussing today is, uh, not so much name, image and likeness, which is a change that came in that allowed athletes to benefit so they can get sponsored deals essentially. So athletes can get sponsored similar to the way a beach volleyball athlete might do that in the past and pick up with, you know, Wilson or rockstar or whatever you can have, uh, NCAA athletes doing similar things now where they can get paid on packages, you know, for advertising and purposes.
Evan Silberstein (00:05:19):
So, which is pretty neat for them. Uh, something I think generally for me and a lot of coaches are in favor of, but it's how do we get into what the right structure of the rules are? Cuz you've got scenarios where all the offensive linemen are getting paid. That was what Saban and just got into with Texas a and M they were kind of complaining back and forth about that kind of stuff. So, you know, most of it is kind of higher level to the football, but it's definitely filtering down to all the sports and, and with that, the NCAA is making other changes on the deck right now for all sports are things like roster limits, coaches counts, scholarship limits. Those things are absolutely critical to kind of figure out for equity in sports. So if they said there's no more scholarships limits, you can have 12 or you can and beach, you have only six wait, you might have, you might have 12 at, you know, LSU, you might have two at another school. That's gonna be up to you. They haven't said it yet, but that's, what's in the discussion right now.
Mark Burik (00:06:18):
No way. Oh, okay. It's on the table. It's not, it hasn't changed. Yeah.
Evan Silberstein (00:06:22):
It's a big deal.
Mark Burik (00:06:23):
That is a huge deal. That's like salary cap in pro sports. And if you have a wealthy institution or tremendous support from boosters boosters, you just take everybody. And now that every and athletes can get paid it's huh?
Evan Silberstein (00:06:38):
Floodgates are opening.
Mark Burik (00:06:40):
Yeah. This is this. That sounds like wild west. I, you said you were kind of in favor of it
Evan Silberstein (00:06:45):
In favor of an IL for sure. But this stuff we we're trying to get positions. That's what Kathy's got us on the call for today is to really try and craft positions and figure out where we stand as a coach
Mark Burik (00:06:55):
Association. Yeah. You know, I've always found it brutal for scholarship athletes, like who, all right. So I, I have a YouTube channel, right. I don't really make anything off the YouTube channel, but now it's starting to lead people to our camps and things. But I see kids who are just on a YouTube channel and they're making good money. They've got a huge following and they used to have to be limited. You know, they couldn't actually make money. Um, you see beach volleyball, indoor players, sorry, indoor players go and win a tournament and get 200 bucks for winning a tournament. And they couldn't earn that even though the NCAA treated it as a different sport. So I always found the NCAA to be a little bit unfair in some ways, but I don't know if I love just like you said, wild, wild west. I yeah, go ahead.
Mark Burik (00:07:40):
Make anything, pay anybody for any reason. I want, I, if a kid who is majoring in English in college, he gets a scholarship for how smart he was, you know, and, and how he performed. And he goes, and he writes for a newspaper when he is 18 as an adult, if he can get paid, it seems that if an athlete is your thing, that maybe you should be able to get paid for that. And then I know the argument comes back with, well, they are getting paid, they're getting paid a free education and everything like that. But if you're putting out that extra effort and creating something that, that people want, you should be able to earn, I don't know about getting gifted stuff or sponsorships, man, this it's such a complicated conversation. Yeah,
Evan Silberstein (00:08:19):
It is. And I, I think you're on point about athletes being able to get paid. And what you've seen in, maybe since when you know I was in college or when you were in college over the generations, NCAA has made some changes. What we're doing now is really wholesale with the stuff and the roster sizes and the scholarship. Those are really, they haven't done those changes yet, but they will be really ground sold when they happen. What they did do a few years ago is allow athletes to get, uh, reasonable. I think it's called reasonable and necessary expenses. So that would allow, and then they spread that over the year in the beginning, they could get reasonable and necessary expenses, but it was a per tournament. So if Katie Spieler one of our great Hawaii players went to go play at a NOA and she made a thousand bucks at that tournament.
Evan Silberstein (00:09:03):
If it cost a thousand to go there for the flight and the hotel, then she could get that. Then they went a little bit further. Then you start looking into the Sarah Hughes and the, the Tina GRS, what they do in a whole summer, they can kind of balance again. So if Sarah Hughes and Kelly clays go to New York city, like they did when they were in college and make a semi-final and it's 10 grand or something like that, they can balance that off for all of their training that they're doing with you at the beach, it cost 'em to New York, they went to dinner. So there's a way to kind of like do like the, almost like a tax write off mm-hmm, kinda similar kind of way to go about things. You gotta keep it, you know, your physio, your equipment or your travel. So they, they can get that money now.
Evan Silberstein (00:09:44):
Whereas maybe when you did five or 10 years ago, that was less available. They opened it up a little bit. Then they opened it up a little bit more. Now they added name, image and likeness that if, uh, you know, whatever, if somebody's in sponsors in college and she gets a sponsorship with Nike when she was in school or something, she can go ahead and make that money there. So that they're opening that framework up college is becoming a lot more like pro sports right now. The big, the big issue that we're looking at. And the question for everyone right now is how do we maintain equity? How do we keep it there? Cause if you've got big boosters and big resources and, and you know, and one school doesn't is that gonna kind of create an, uh, a non level playing field. So that's what we're all working to figure out right now
Mark Burik (00:10:24):
Is any, is any playing field level. I mean, , you know, you look at it, you travel to a school. Okay. It, it does a team in Colorado or Denver or salt lake city. Are they playing on an equal playing field when their air is thinner? And the ball travels further in, uh, bigger schools, big name schools like yours and USC, are you really playing on an equal playing field when you have that name that has been created and, and you have millions of applicants instead of thousands, you know, I don't know if there's in life really ever a level playing field. I, I think it always comes down to who can adjust to any playing field better, but in terms of college sports, yeah, it's gonna a difference in scholarships is going to be a monster difference and people can just gobble up all the best players.
Evan Silberstein (00:11:11):
Yeah. We're, we're hopeful to, I think toward that, I think that was kind of unanimous thing. You know, a lot, a lot of great coaches, you know, colleagues, you know, Dan and bro, John, a lot of guys are, you know, women are in on the call today. And I think, no, one's really kind of in favor, uh, of lifting that, but this is, this is something the NCAA's looking at for all sports. OK. So we're, we're just kind of the beach volleyball angle. What if we do change it? How might you wanna have it become, do you wanna become more of a, of an equivalency sport like that we are, or like a headcount sport, like indoor indoors got 12 scholarships. They're full scholarships. So mm-hmm, um, they can kind of give them out one by one. Whereas beach has got six scholarship and we give out, you know, 20% here, 80% there, maybe academics there, maybe that's a legacy kid and family's paying the money.
Evan Silberstein (00:11:57):
It's a range of stuff. So, uh, no, I don't think anybody really wants to kind of like pull it off altogether, but it it's about our control. So I, I think the point you made is a really good one is how can we be adaptable? You know? And I think at, uh, that's really what we're talking about with our administration is we're not gonna be the ones that sets the 10 or, or the rule changes. Mm-hmm how can be, how can we be ready to take best advantage of whatever rule changes come in? How can we adapt? Uh, and that's, that's always gonna be a key to, uh, competitive success
Mark Burik (00:12:25):
And how good of a mindset is that to have in, you know, not just sports, not just NCAA, but your whole life, like nothing's ever going to be completely fair. So everybody just needs to stop thinking that in any way, life is not going to come at you in any sort of fair way. So playing victim and saying like, oh, well I didn't get, well, I didn't get, you know, it's who can, who can just decide to move a mountain when it's in your way. so that's people who pivoted, we were one of the kind of beneficiaries, like pivoting during COVID into how do we now adjust there? People had brick and mortars and a lot of them, you know, went down. Some people learned how to pivot to a completely, not even like a different playing field, a completely different one, you know? So I, I think as seeing you in a, in a head coach position right now, it's like, oh, that's, that's clear why you should be there because when you embrace the mentality of, yeah, it's not going be fair, but how are we going to be ready to adapt? That is such a huge mindset thing. I, instead of looking at the field and being like, well, we don't do well on that. It's no, how do we adapt to that?
Evan Silberstein (00:13:30):
Yeah. Then you don't, then you're not on the field for very long, like the perspective like that. So yeah, we have pride in our history of success. I think in volleyball in Hawaii, we have such a great legacy of volleyball at, uh, and then just in Hawaii, you know, obviously the legacy of ADP players on the men's side speaks for itself. We have us Olympic players, um, there's something in the water or is there something in our culture? And I think a lot of it is that people really care about volleyball here. People really know a lot about volleyball yet.
Mark Burik (00:14:00):
It's clear, like you guys sell out every indoor mat. It's insane. I think you guys hold the records for, for sold out matches every year, but why is, is Hawaii so volleyball, thirsty? Why does the entire island show up to a, uh, match? Could you define it? Could you point to a person or a year where Hawaii just said, we are now volleyball state,
Evan Silberstein (00:14:21):
There's a few things that go into, this is a long and a fun story. So we can kind of like jump in at different angles, you know, and we're good at it so that everyone likes a winner. Um, and particularly in Hawaii, we don't have professional athletics. So, you know, our college teams really take on like a heightened importance okay. In the community similar, you might see for Nebraska, you know, for indoor volleyball, which also does a great job with attendance and hosting and things like that. So, um, you know, so part of it is what we don't have that helps to highlight what we do have then there's things like our history. I think Kevin Wong and some of those guys have done a nice job highlighting what George dad center there's it said that beach volleyball was originated here in Hawaii. Right? So we started like, so duke and all of his group duke swim coach is great movie right now.
Evan Silberstein (00:15:10):
Moku. Thank you. So there's, there's an amazing movie. Actually. I'll make a plug for, for duke. Uh, it's called Waterman. That's out on PBS right now. So if anyone's out there and you wanna keep a good look, learn a little bit about Hawaii history and duke was actually a beach volleyball player. Not a lot of people knew that he was an Olympic swimmer. He was a lifesaver. He also, when the swells were down, what did they do? They strung up the net and they played little beach VO. So I always kinda link that to, if you look back at the, the, my understanding and you guys can fact check me, is that the longest running beach volleyball tournament is the sixth man. Okay. Right. And the sixth man is called what the surf festival it's called the surf festival. And what does everyone do? They dress up well, what does everyone like to do in Hawaii?
Evan Silberstein (00:15:52):
We win Halloween. Also everyone dresses up and everybody surfs. So if you link back duke coming over into Santa Monica in the thirties and forties, then this tournament kind of starts up. Everyone's having kind of a fun game. And obviously the game evolves in Southern California. There's no doubt about that. The evolution of the game that happens in SoCal is amazing, but we do have this long kind of affinity for, um, beach volleyball all the way back to its beginnings for volleyball generally. You know, I think it's, uh, yeah, I, I can't pin it to one thing I know from a title IX perspective is another way to look at it. We've had some really, you know, P we're in the 50th anniversary of title nine. I'll put another plug there June, June 23rd, I believe will be, or coming up this month is the 50th anniversary.
Evan Silberstein (00:16:36):
Now the woman who signed it, who was kind of the co-sponsor of it is Patsy mink. She's graduated the law school where I actually went to here at, uh, as well. So there she was a Congresswoman from, uh, or from Hawaii that had a lot to do with sort of pushing that law through and our ad at the time, or sort of our women's administrative time was a woman named Donna Thompson. So they did a lot of cool stuff into the seventies when Shoji came on, Dave coached your 42 years and with tremendous success, second, most winningest, all time coach, other than Russ rose, um, over at Penn state. So he did it for 42 years, but it's cool stories about how he starts, you know, so there, there's a really neat beginning to it all. And Donis with Patsy and Dave and others kind of, they, they pushed away to say, we're gonna get the Blazedale to host a volleyball game.
Evan Silberstein (00:17:27):
We went to, you know, nationals and everyone loved us. So we're gonna host the game and they're like, you're crazy. It's never gonna work, or we're gonna sell tickets. You're gonna sell tickets for women's volleyball in Hawaii. You're crazy. And it worked, she went around, she does all this work. She gets out there, she gets people to support it. And ever since that moment really was the, before there was the Stan sheriff center where we played now and all those sells you're talking about. There was the Blazedale and the whole community came together to support, um, the women's volleyball team. And so really from that moment on, I think it really becomes sort of a splash into the Hawaiian community where people say, wow, this is the coolest thing that we got volleyball. And then, then kids see it on TV. They go to the games and it just keeps building up.
Evan Silberstein (00:18:09):
We got the life and the lifestyle, obviously families that have played for a long time, the crab Oana, you know, Tony crab and Chris crab and they're teaching their kids and there's Outrigger and the huge history there, the Haynes there's, you know, Tom Hayne on the 68 Olympic team, we call him daddy like his kids and all their kids. So it there's just been, I think, historical figures that have done a tremendous job. And then, um, just a couple little bit, like you said, pivoting, you know, kind of making right moments at right times really to kind of create an explosion. And, uh, here we are with volleyball just at its, you know, Charlie Wade men's volleyball team does won international championship. So we're, we're continuing that record of success. Robin O Mo um, is amazing to work side by side with, on the indoor program. They do. They just, they, they just know how to represent. So it's, it's fun to be a part of all that. And just try and do our little, create our beach volleyball path and our beach volleyball history, kind of in the middle of all
Mark Burik (00:19:03):
That, you know, I've got a question for you that I think of, as you're talking about all that, do you find it as a coach? Do you find it easy to recruit to Hawaii? Do you think, like you have an upper hand in the level playing field of recruiting or is it more difficult because you're so far away from everybody. Yeah. A balance, great history, paradise, great school with a great name, a brand name, but also it's a li I imagine a lot of players, you just lose because like, my parents don't want me to go that far. You know,
Evan Silberstein (00:19:36):
You're on point, we say that, uh, geography is our greatest challenge and our biggest asset. It it's just, that's across the department. I think for beach volleyball, we get a little more pull because it's beach volleyball. And the types of athletes that are interested in wanting to go to the beach might be the same ones that wanna go surfing or go hiking. So maybe different than you might see in basketball, you know, just a different style of athlete that the beach gets to draw. So, yeah, it's, it's our greatest asset and it's our greatest challenge. We always tell folks it's not gonna change. , um, it's 2,500 miles and five hours. Um, so there's, there's a lot of ways that we mitigate, we go to California, a lot to compete, so kids can see their families in those moments. Yeah. But we need a certain style of athlete, a certain style of student athlete. That's gonna be here. That's willing to deal with being away from home from mom and dad and not drive
Mark Burik (00:20:27):
You that in the interviews and the emails and the phone calls, do you get a feel for like, yeah. They say they want to come, but you know, they're still really pulled to, to being with their family. And you're just like, you know what, Hey, we love you, but I can tell in a, in about three months, you're gonna be, I'm not gonna say crying home to mama, but you know, but you wanna be with your family. You don't wanna be so far outside your comfort zone. Like for me, my oldest brother from New York city, right. We're from Queens. He went to university of Nebraska, cuz his guidance counselor said, Hey, you like football. Right. Well, Nebraska's got a great football team. And my brother said, okay, he, he was miserable. He went there for a semester and he was like, we literally hung out under a streetlight on this one street. And that was Friday and Saturday nights. So do you try to pick up on that before an athlete gets to you and have you ever just said like let's, let's part ways here cuz it might not work out in the future.
Evan Silberstein (00:21:20):
Yeah. You know, we definitely assess for that. We, you know, we check in and ask questions, whether they've ever been to Hawaii, you know, sometimes they've never been here, so that's its own thing. Right. You've been on the island before your family lives over here. You've kind of gotten a little taste of it. So whether they've been here, do they have any connection to it? Do they have a family member that's that lived here for the military or a sister who played on the softball team or whatever, some sense of like kind of a little tie-in or buy-in and you certainly, they certainly don't need that to be successful, but those are usually helpful clues, you know, with, when we get outside of California further away from the west, there's a little more education there because sometimes they don't realize how quite, how far it is like, oh, I didn't know. It wasn't just like Catalina , you know, like it's out there.
Mark Burik (00:22:09):
Evan Silberstein (00:22:09):
So there's a little bit of that. So yeah, we're constantly assessing for that. And I, I mean, I've had my heart broken when an athlete, you know, when it's down to us and you know, a UCLA where the kid from Texas and us and whatever us and you know, with a girl from Canada, us in Stanford, it's just, you know, I just, oh the time zone difference. I can't talk to mom because it's gonna be really far away. Like you said, a crying to mom, every kid in her freshman year kind of wants to cry to mom one way or the other in October
Mark Burik (00:22:38):
And okay. Or knows I did.
Evan Silberstein (00:22:40):
It's just pretty normal. Um, yeah. You know, I get it. I think we've all been there. So, but when, if that's a five or six hour difference, that's, it's a hard thing to manage. So I've heard that usually it's more them giving it to me. We've got an athlete that's in, you know, Julia skulls plays, but now she's gonna go to SC cuz she just wants a new experience. She just wants to be closer to home. It's just too far. They loved it. It went grade. She graduated. But eh, at this point I'm gonna pull a little tighter in, at those moments you, we just kind of bless 'em and say, yeah, good luck and do your path. Cause one thing we know we don't want is someone who doesn't not gonna wanna be here. And if you get homesick enough, that starts to add up and that's not good for me because now it's just more to manage for everyone. When athletes are just uncomfortable at that level, at that kind of survival level.
Mark Burik (00:23:27):
Can you dive in specifically to, I mean, you don't have to name names or anything, but specifically to somebody who really feels sick of being there, but they don't know why they want to be there. And they're trying to leave, you know, like in relationships, like sometimes you have this like kind of breakup, you have this separation, but people still fight to be together even through the discomfort. And that happens all the time on teams of people trying to separate looking elsewhere. What's that fight like for you as a coach. And I'm not gonna say how hard, but maybe you can just describe how you fight to keep an athlete here and how long you fight to do that. Do you have any, uh, could you riff on that?
Evan Silberstein (00:24:09):
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's, it's a critical question. I'd say every year there's, you know, one or two, especially we're in a transfer portal era, it's different, you know, when you were in college, you, you know, you had to kind of suck it up or city year out and those kinds of scenarios are over. Now. Athletes can opt out in the middle of the semester, join the team the next semester somewhere else. So we're, we're sensitive to that. You know, we won't be too sensitive cause they don't wanna be hostage to what athletes whims and changes will be
Mark Burik (00:24:36):
Fine. I'm outta here. Okay. So no problem.
Evan Silberstein (00:24:38):
The main thing is culture. You know, if we have a culture that athletes are being supported, we, I have an open line of communication. My door is open. They feel like they can text me. They can call me, they can walk in the door, we can usually communicate and make it less of a, less of a struggle, less of a fight, more of a conversation. And then we can get through some of the superficial tensions. And I think that's kind of the goal always as a coach is to kind of get an athlete to kind of, to blue, like cool. 'em down a little bit. So it's okay. That's that was like for today or that was like a little thing, but we can move on when we've seen patterns where we start to see behavior that's outside of their norm. If they're, they're acting out in certain ways, practice outside, practice, those get to be bigger issues.
Evan Silberstein (00:25:18):
So again, just more dialogue, more conversation about, you know, kind of checking in on feelings and needs. Like what are the feelings and what do you need from all this? What do you, you need ease, you need comfort, you need safety, you know, what, what is it that's getting it getting kind of to you and what are ways that we can provide that need maybe in a way that more creatively than you had thought you only used to getting that level of support from mom. And maybe we can figure out ways, you know, it might be that they need a church, you know, it might be that they relationship with their teammates. It could be schools really getting them down. Like, so there's, there's so many, these are young developing, um, really amazing and talented, but nonetheless still vitally emotional young women. Right. So they are going through a lot of stuff.
Evan Silberstein (00:26:04):
And so we just try and kind of unpack it, prioritize it to a certain degree. And then if there's a bigger thing where it's for sure, you know, we're gonna lean out then eventually when you can really see that clarity, then again, not wanting to struggle, you know, it's like, can we, you know, it's gonna be, we kind of set a date, okay, I'm gonna go on the portal for the end of the year. So then now it's kind of a crisis, man. Not the crisis is over, but when now we're in sort of a, not a conflict management, but an athlete's, you know, they're gonna leave at the end of the year so then you gotta coach 'em and for what you got 'em for, you know, and especially again,
Mark Burik (00:26:38):
And they might be against you.
Evan Silberstein (00:26:39):
Yeah. I, I think for the Mo I feel grateful for the most part, um, with our staff here and in my years, kind of at the helm, I, I don't think people are leaving because of us. You know, that it's, again, it's a geography primarily, sometimes academics might be a team thing so that every school is dealing with the portal these days, both in and out. Um, so it's just a new era of being sensitive to athletes, having good conversations with athletes, mental health is kind of the buzz in the NCAA right now. So really investing on athlete, mental health, getting them resources, getting them tools so that they can help themselves. And so that they feel that the team is a safe place for them to get that help. Those are really the big things for us. And then that the smaller level decision of when a kid's gonna, when an athlete's gonna go, when they're not gonna go, they, they, you kind of figure it out. And eventually once they're gone, it's not that you want, 'em gone, but you're you wanna kind of healthily kind of help lead them gone because it, it's not great to have in your culture as someone who doesn't wanna be there.
Mark Burik (00:27:35):
So you're dealing with that kind of constantly in IA. Imagine that club coaches are dealing with this nonstop from parents who say, we're leaving a club kid, who's saying we're leaving a club. So you're doing it at a, you know, we'll call it a higher playing level. But I think emotional investment, it's the exact same emotional investment as, as a club director or club coach. But I still think people look up to you. So if you were to give a two minute seminar on, Hey, when players want to leave your club, your team, how do you handle it? And, and if you're talking to a whole bunch of club coaches out there, do you have any like two minute quick hitter advice and like, do this, do this, do this, and Hey, take it easy on this.
Evan Silberstein (00:28:20):
Yeah, it's a challenging question. And what I'll first say is I can empathize with the club coaches that it might be out there listening, cuz they're dealing a lot more with parents. Hmm. The good and lucky thing about our situations. We deal with parents to a degree as we're recruiting, but for the most part, once we get an athlete in it's, it's their responsibility. So it's a need opportunity to kind of develop those athletes, to make, have those adult decisions. And just adult conversations. Parents tend to be very emotional and they see their athletes, their, you know, their children in, you know, through kind of a rose lens. Understandably so ,
Mark Burik (00:28:57):
You're very good at saying the last,
Evan Silberstein (00:29:00):
You know, uh, that it's all about parent management at that level. Um, because the parent thinks the kids should be in or you, they paid and they should travel or they paid this and they, this she's better than Janie. She beats Susie and Susie beat Janie. So therefore she should get that. Those kinds of things are a little harder to deal with, cuz they're not always as rational or measured. So I think the first and best advice, which pretty much fits for everything in my coaching these days and in my life and relationships is listen, you know, give people the opportunity to be heard. And so that it could be an angry parent. It could be an athlete that's coming in, it's having a challenge, hear 'em out, you know, and hear 'em out in a way that as non as you can, even if it might be personal, you know, even if it's like, oh the coaching, you know, this is what's wrong with the staff.
Evan Silberstein (00:29:47):
And then I wanna, oh no, we did this. Just take it in and listen and really hear what's real for them. What are they needing? You know, and listen in a way to really figure out what it is that they need and, and start to see from there. How are ways that you have a culture or that you have a program or you have something that can help them see that maybe they can get those needs met in house, right? So you, we will always wanna stay in house if we can, as the first thing. So first would be listen, you know, for the specific needs. And then once, once you get a sense of what those are, um, maybe sort of, Hey, would, would you be willing to, you know, here are some ways that we could support you in getting these, you know, important needs met.
Evan Silberstein (00:30:25):
It sounds like you really need to be, you need some needs, you need some support, you need opportunity. That's the big one for athletes. Now I have it with athletes. Now they wanna play, you know, so if they don't then it's, you know, how can we make practice seem a certain way? How can we create green, white opportunities? How can we, you know, everyone wants to play and really mom just wants their kid to play. Yeah. In some cases it might just be like, look, you're gonna be better off at that other club because you're gonna get more opportunity to play. So that might be the final result. You gotta be prepared to maybe kind of walk somebody out and club's different because those are also, you know, there's money on a line. That's how you make your livelihood. If a kid, if an athlete leaves here, I still get a salary, right? If an athlete leaves a club, I might not have dinner. So
Mark Burik (00:31:09):
, that's a very good point.
Mark Burik (00:31:12):
Very good point. I talk to a few club directors in the past few days and they're like, I'm barely making money. And people think I pay you all this money. And these are pretty Sable clubs, you know, 40, 80, 80 kids. And they're like, no, this isn't my full-time thing. I just love volleyball. And I know that there's a need, you know? So like maybe if you're lucky you're making a, a couple grand, but you're doing this wrong. You're always, my kid is blah, blah. I, I just find that to be kind of nightmarish. Uh, it makes me feel very blessed to do things the way that we do it and, and work, not exclusively, but work consistently with adults who we deal with. One set of emails per person, not three, not, not kid mom and dad,
Evan Silberstein (00:31:55):
Parents definitely, certainly, uh, make things more complex. But in the cases of, uh, club directors, they're also writing the checks. So it's it, it's kind of just a part of the management and all the people that I know both indoor and beach club directors or coaches, parent management is way more, it's more like pain management. It's a little bit more of a, than they would want it to be. But it's also again where, where the checks are coming from. So, uh, yeah, try, listen, um, and be really patient and, uh, figure out, you know, how you can get parents, you know, and athletes needs met, you know, in house or, you know, hopefully move them, you know, on somewhere else, if you can, if you can afford it. And if they can, you know, you think there's better places that they might just have better experience.
Mark Burik (00:32:37):
Mm. And there's something that, you know, I, I feel like so many club directors might want is to set the rule that says we don't have to listen. Like you signed up to play this club. Here's the piece of paper that you signed that you say, I'm not going to approach the coach in X way on any of these days. Uh, we had a very, when, when I was coaching club for my 15 se in Brooklyn, I said, you will not talk to me the day after a ma like for the full 24 hours after a match, there's no text to me that I will answer. There's no phone calls that I will answer. And if you wanna talk about the match or playing time or any thing like that, everything will wait 24 hours. And if they came to me, I said, Hey, we have a 24 hour rule, sorry, because for me, I'm invested as a coach, right?
Mark Burik (00:33:21):
So if, if we just lost, I'm definitely gonna be upset. I'm gonna be pissed. So I know that I'm more likely to get fired up if they come at me and for sure them and their kids are the most upset during that time. So that 24 hour window, I think I, I was lucky enough with club to have a, a bunch of great parents and great kids, but that didn't stop all of those questions and conversations. And I never had to have that forced rule, but I bet so many club directors just wanna look at it and say hard rule. Like these are the rules. If you don't like them, if you don't like playing time, no, there is no conversation. You get a, like one or two strike policy and then you just fire a parent. And I know that more parents should be fired.
Evan Silberstein (00:34:09):
Mark Burik (00:34:10):
You have to chop that block at some point, if it's always costing you time, energy and making you miserable, like some parents need to be fired as parents and say, here, here's all your money back for the whole season. Goodbye.
Evan Silberstein (00:34:22):
Well, you know, I, I guess as you're talking, a couple things come to mind here, one is, I like what you did in your fifteens team, as you made an agreement, you know, it's a rule, but it's maybe even framing as easier agreements. You know, I'm gonna, you have to sign it. And by signing this, you're agreeing to give yourself this cool down period, the cool down period's gonna benefit you and it's gonna benefit me. So you give 'em a little education with the agreement. So then they can relax into that I think is, you know, is a big, big step to kind of move into it. And it sounds like you're able to use that. And that's a good insight, you know, I think maybe for other clubs to try and figure out ways to kind of get that done. So, yeah, I'm not sure. I feel grateful. Um, I coach at Outrigger the canoe club, but it's, I get to stay out as some of the doing a little more parent management these days just done some changes, but overall, um, just a little bit of club work here that we're allowed to do in the NCAA, but I have a lot of empathy and, uh, understanding for how challenging it is for club coaches to, to make it work, um, with different parents and you know, different situations. So good luck with it guys.
Mark Burik (00:35:20):
good luck. It should be so enjoyable. It's I think it's just, it's a shame that we, the volleyball community and I am, you know what, this is gonna be all sports. So it's not volleyball, but we're losing tremendous coaches because they get so unhappy because of that situation, you know, the, the more pressure people put on those coaches and directors, you're going to remove what you might think is a bad coach or a bad director, but is really a passionate director. Who's not doing it your way. And it, and it thinks that we might be losing some of those personalities each year that could have done great things for sports and kids and people wanna have everybody have some peace and yeah, conversation.
Evan Silberstein (00:36:04):
Education helps too. That, that was the other point that I was thinking of is education, right? So you can cuz when you're in a club scenario for us, you know, in a college level, our culture, the education happens mostly with the student athletes right around what the culture is. But if you're gonna be a club and you gotta recognize that the parents are kind of part of that, they are really part of the clubs because a, they fund it B they're helping to travel the athletes, they're helping to feed the athletes, they're doing different things. So how do we figure out ways to get them to contribute, but also agree to different rules and educate them along the way. So maybe that that's something I think bigger clubs probably have an easier time with this cuz they have more time and they have more teams, you know, to do parent education seminars, you know, give 'em a positive coaching kind of thing.
Evan Silberstein (00:36:48):
When the kid gets in your, in your car at the end of the day, it's, you know, the main thing you gotta let 'em know is that you love 'em and that you support. 'em not that their cut shot didn't work. You don't need a 14 year old coming off the beach in Manhattan beach and having dad after they just train with Patty and Mike tell 'em how to hate a cut shot. Dad. Wasn't the pro Patty and Mike are the pros. Patty and Mike are gonna show him how to do it. And they're gonna do it really positively with thousand different positive encouragements passing Amy's mom and dad to Connie, go ahead and give him, gotta not do it that way. Kid don't wanna hear it. That's the message. Parents, kids don't wanna hear that.
Mark Burik (00:37:21):
They wanna, I had a stern talk with my dad, dad in college, like in college, he never got too involved, but I couldn't stand when outside people who were not in the practice field, uh, were not on the bench or were not hearing what we talk about saying, you just didn't look like this X today. And my dad started talking about it and he, he really never talked much about it, but he got really passionate about volleyball when I started it. And he started talking after a loss about why we did this or that we didn't have this. And I said, dad, what you need to do right now is pat me on the Fanny. it's a tough game and be quiet. I, I will talk to you about it when I'm ready. But a lot of people don't have that. Like my dad understood where I was at and now him, my wife, they all know like if I lose a match, I'm gonna go kick a few garbage cans. I'm gonna go through, you know, Chuck some things in the air. And then in about an hour, I'll come back and I'll be ready to be a human again. But that conversa that window after on the ride home, that is not the time for reflection or discussion or definitely not criticism.
Evan Silberstein (00:38:26):
There are analysis. Any analysis at that point or the criticism really is. I think that we're finding that again, that kind of taps back into that mental health that we're, we're just all talking about and just scratching the surface on to realize how much pressure are these athletes under both at a club level and a college level, both those that are trying to get into college and the stress that comes there, those and those that are even at the very pinnacle of the game, you know, we're seeing suicide, like there's really, really big time things happening with really, really high level athletes. So I think our eyes are opening to all the different places that those stressors may be showing up. So again, education is important, both, you know, for, in my case directly to student athletes, I don't really educate parents necessarily because we're Hawaii.
Evan Silberstein (00:39:09):
We, we travel a certain way when we kinda, we like to fly a bigger flag, but I know at certain, you know, at certain institutions it's kind of locked off from parents. Parents are just blatantly, not even really around the team and there's more distance and I can see the value in that. Again, we have kind of in Hawaii, we call Ohana, uh, it means family. So we have a bit of a broader feeling when we travel on the road, we've got families nearby and we like to welcome 'em. They get to know me. They, they, I think they know their place relative to that, like kind of getting into kind of like more, you know, dialogue. But I know that they're definitely talking to their kids around things, but again, in the right time and place and when it's welcome and when it's agreed upon, those are really important things for, for athletes to maintain, you know, it's, it's it's again, what do they need?
Evan Silberstein (00:39:53):
They need safety. yeah. Emotional safety for, for a 15 or a 16 or an 18 year old athlete is everything. When they don't have it, they will not compete well when they don't have it, they will not compete. Well, that part I feel pretty clear about. So how can we as parents, clubs, coaches, whatever level we're at kind of create, even though we're gonna push them outta their comfort zones, to really peak their level up, they still need to have a sense of trust and safety that really can guide their journey, that they're willing to risk that they're willing to fall. I'm gonna put 'em in a hard situation. Yeah. You lost it three years, but guess what? Like, I love the way that you're initiating your cert, you came in, you defended, well, you decided out great in the first set, we saw that dip with something we can look at, let's go back in and see what we got there.
Evan Silberstein (00:40:37):
So we can get in and look and say, you lost the match, but a hundred great things happened. That's fantastic. I pushed you a little past your level. Okay. But you, you gave everything you had and I'm proud of that effort. Let's pull you back up dusty often, get you back, going, not like, oh, you finally got your opportunity at three and you, you know, you gave it up and you're never gonna get back there. Uh, that's not something not in women's athletics. I, I haven't noticed that to be successful, um, as a kind of a tactic. So I think creating the safety and the trust and the conversation on those really, really big pieces for us to be able to, you know, kind create success.
Mark Burik (00:41:12):
Yeah. That's the wife back there. Cool email. Uh, so talking about, you know, mental and emotional, is there N or several attributes that you define as this is what successful players have or do in terms of mentality?
Evan Silberstein (00:41:31):
Yeah. That's another great question right there. And I know it's, it's one that had me prepared for, but I don't think
Mark Burik (00:41:36):
I it's number three
Evan Silberstein (00:41:38):
I think that's right on the list and this I'll talk about everything else. Someone's on the list. Yeah. You know, adaptability, we talked about it earlier, you know, beach volleyball, tenacity, um, I think is an important one that sort of the ability to continue the rebound element. How can we move on? How can we reframe? How can we get to the next point? How can we sort
Mark Burik (00:42:01):
Of, can you train that?
Evan Silberstein (00:42:02):
Yeah. I mean, there's, there's definitely part of it. It comes is definitely a character trait. It's certainly something you can train in conditioning. One thing we sometimes say, I've, I've heard it come up a lot lately is, you know, how do anything is how we do everything so we can train it in how we sweep the closet. We can train it in how we keep the team room. We can train it in how we talk to each other. We can train it in how we are on the sideline. We can train it in how we approach drills. So there's, I think there's habits. I think the power of habit really plays a bigger role in creating things like resiliency, tenacity, you know, some of those things that we, I think are commonly identified as really good beach traits, you know, at least sort of mentally, I mean, physically, you know, longer taller, faster, stronger.
Evan Silberstein (00:42:50):
Yeah. All of that. And more metrics really do matter. Um, and so those are driving the, the engine, but when we get into the point where we're gonna get into the fine tune, the mental stuff, I think how we that's, those are cultural pieces. How do we operate as a culture? How are we doing, you know, little things, cause that's gonna reflect on how we do bigger things. So no cutting corners, no pointing fingers, those types of things, taking self responsibility, accountability. So broad range, no one or two things. I think resiliency, tenacity are really big ones for me. When I think about beach volleyball players that have been successful. And yeah, some, couple of ideas about how to train him. I don't know that I've got it. I'm still working on it. yeah. Now I'm coaching, but I, I like the things that I'm uncovering.
Evan Silberstein (00:43:33):
So it's fun to be kind of leaning in the direction of, of some of these, you know, great team cultures. And again, we have such a good history here and sense of purpose something bigger. So that's purpose driven, right? So when we get Hawaii, you wanna represent Hawaii, Hawaii beach volleyball, that's a big deal. So I think sometimes that can help people lift up out of the small drama. You know, the little things in Hawaii, we call it the the weeds, you know, the, oh, I'm not playing or how come she got this chance or, you know, those kinds of questions that come up. I think when we get connect to something bigger, when we have a bigger vision for the program, a bigger vision for what we represent as an institution, you know, to the people of Hawaii or, or just kind of tapping into that, it helps some lift us up, you know, into kind of just a higher realms of focus.
Mark Burik (00:44:21):
If you were, you talked about like bigger, taller, stronger. The first thing I, when I first started like a podcast version on YouTube, it was garbage, but I asked people like speed round questions. And one of the questions that I'm always interested is if you, if all things, all things were equal, would you choose an increase in height, in an athlete or an increase in speed and agility?
Evan Silberstein (00:44:46):
Yeah. It's a hard, I think I might have to say speed and agility, you know, is it maybe because I'm small, but I tend to like to bring in tall players, but I, I do know that we, you know, we have tall athletes that don't just make it right away. You know, that, that you kind of need both it's beach volleyball. It's demanding at that level where height is not the only indication
Mark Burik (00:45:07):
And you graduated, uh, Katie Spieler who yeah. You know, AVP rocks are, is what, 5, 5 54.
Evan Silberstein (00:45:12):
Yeah. And I mean we, and, and Chris cook and Britney TES, you know, like, so players that have high IQs, um, but you know, there's, it's, it's, it's just a, it's a hard mix, you know, I it's, it's not just one, one answer, but if you were just tall, I don't think you could play beach necessarily. I don't think the six, we've seen lots of the six, six kind of bird level bones that just don't middles don't translate as well on the beach. It takes a lot of undoing sometimes for those styles of athletes to come over and be great. So I don't think height alone is an indicator, but obviously when you have the right mix of height with, you know, you look at Phil, like when Phil started, I was on the beach in 2002 in Florida, you know, watching Nick and Phil play and Phil broke the rules, you know, you played against Phil. We've all seen Phil and gone on the goat now. But when he started, he's just hitting this angle and we're like, oh, like, what is that?
Mark Burik (00:46:06):
What do we do? Holy
Evan Silberstein (00:46:08):
Cow, what do we do? We're on the bud light tour watching like, Hey man, like you probably wanna go to California, somebody's gonna get you. So there's moments like that where height kind of changes the paradigm, you know, so height at that, I think Phil's height. And, you know, I dunno if he's speedy necessarily, but his agility and his dexterity with the height was game changing. So that's what everyone's kind of going for. Right. Who can get the height with some of the attending pieces that go with it. Those become really kind of like deal, break, deal, making kind of situations.
Mark Burik (00:46:39):
And you know, I always hear people say this like trash, like, oh, you're too tall to be fast. You're too tall to be agile. No, it's, there's no such thing like the, the percentage of athleticism is the same percentage in six foot people, five, five people and six, six people. It doesn't mean tall on athletic or slower. It means that there's less of them. There's less six, nine people. So if you only have seen 10, 6, 9 people in your life, then nine of them are going to be terrible athletes, just like 90% of people who are 6, 3, 6, 6, 5 feet, or are terrible athlete, or can't play that sport. You know, there's just a lot more people that you see who are athletics, so you associate it. But I can't stand when people say like, oh, I'm too tall, not agile, like a big goon. He can't move. It has nothing to do with the height. Yeah. It's the same percentage across
Evan Silberstein (00:47:28):
Pretty tall guys. , it's, it's nice to have the, the luxury of having the metrics on one side, you know, again, as in the smaller court, particularly I think this is an easier question 25 years ago, because speed agility was even that much more of a factor, cuz it was kind of a bigger court. So they had, it just felt like it covered more distance. But I think the F I B B is proving that these guys are huge and they just hand no one could ever handset. Like, you know, you just wait for the guy to miss the call and everyone would be, you know, now everyone's just catching and chucking. So it's, it's just a different game. Now on the men's side, particularly, I feel grateful that I was at least played mostly in the old era and some of the new era.
Evan Silberstein (00:48:11):
And I'm sure happy that I'm like retired now. And I like to play for fun, but I don't wanna, I don't, I don't think I would've taken the game on. I don't think I would've played. I would've, I wouldn't have picked it. I, if I had to, you know, play against the giants from the beginning, it just wouldn't have made sense. But I, I think the game now, if, yeah, if I'm five, eight now, personally, I don't know that I pick beach volleyball cause I'm going, uh, it's just not, but in 19 90, 91 92 in New York when I'm starting and I'm like, wait a second, maybe, you know, it was still uphill, but it was maybe. And I was like, I can make maybe into a, yes, I can build that into, yes, I can have success here. And it was better than indoor cuz indoor, there was no coaches.
Evan Silberstein (00:48:51):
Coaches are gonna tell me you're too small beach volleyball. I was like, I'm gonna beat your NYU guys. I'm gonna beat your Penn state guys. I'm gonna beat your George Mason guys. I'm gonna beat your south Hampton guys, whatever. I just play 'em and win and be like, all right, whatever. I can't go play your college, but I'll whoop your guys on the beach all day. And that happened for years. So it gave me confidence to say, okay, I can go out and play in this game as a small guy. But now I might, I don't know what I would pick, but I
Mark Burik (00:49:18):
Still love the game. And you would beat the people who, who you're interested in beating, you know, there'll be some, there's always a, what do you call a pecking order? Yeah. You know? So you still love it. Everybody falls still falls in love. It's just, you know, all right, I'm gonna beat you always just look at that next one person that, that you wanna beat. And you're like, that's the level. Yeah. Made a little level jump.
Evan Silberstein (00:49:37):
Yeah. Keep climbing.
Mark Burik (00:49:38):
Could you, oh man, could you imagine Phil's offense on this court, on the big court? Like just his offense. We're not gonna talk about total game defense, virtual reality. What would he do against car? How would they play against each other? I, I don't even wanna imagine that, but just the level of his offense with the angles that he has such control of on the small court, it would be
Evan Silberstein (00:49:58):
Silly. Yeah. It would be impressive in reception is the one place. I know that when I, again, when I played him in like, oh two, we could get him in server seed, but that was an oh two fill. That was like pre-taught, you know, mm-hmm so it was like, meek, just like serving the ball, serving the ball and
Mark Burik (00:50:14):
Evan Silberstein (00:50:15):
Over like short sideline, like jump to the corner, like just trying to get him. And you could at least get a couple, you know, in there. But yeah. I mean, I think all these guys that, you know, he's just one example of, you know, the international style, the Anders and some of the Germans and the Netherlands guys are just huge and the defenders are six, five or whatever. So yeah, it's coming up. But I think that proves your point that you don't need to be that the tall guys can be just as athletic, you know, as you know, as the small guys have been in the past. So, um, it's exciting. It's fun to watch the changes in the game. Watch the Qari like what those guys are doing, just watching the women, what they're doing, you know, watching, you know, spon when she came through college clays, when she came through college, you know, the Magna errors when they came through college, each kind of with a defining element of how they're doing, what they're doing. And then now if you look, I looked at, uh, world, uh, it's world championships or just the last tournament before that lobby tournament and like of the top 20 seeds or 21 seeds, there was easily. So it's like 40 players at 40 players. I think there was like 12 or 13, like NCAA, all Americans.
Mark Burik (00:51:22):
Oh yeah. Cause
Evan Silberstein (00:51:24):
Is in there. The max are in there. BOV bitch is in there. That's on top of the us girls. So I'm, it's so cool to be a part of the NCAA, like women's beach volleyball, like they're better than the men were 20 years ago. Like I don't
Mark Burik (00:51:37):
Worry. We've said this for a minute now. Like the NCAA now that now that parents and money and NCAA scholarships are going to beach volleyball, I think, okay, well now the NCAA is like training players from other countries and then they go back during the summer, they compete for their countries. But I think there's just going to be American dominance just by nature of look at what we did with our NCAA program. You know, this is, this is a big answer for people and the level of women's volleyball has just P blown up. So I do have a curiosity for when you are coaching teaching for the women's game, it's way easier to get kills on two it's way, easier to get a set over a bump kill onto. And this is just, this is just physics. The, the net's lower. So the ball doesn't have to get as far from the ground. So defenders have less time shots should fall better. Cut shots should fall better. Doesn't matter how high you're coming from. It matters that it's, it can be low enough to cross that net. So defense is harder for women, but are you training them right now to constantly have a like peripheral eye on the other side of the net while they're setting? Or are you just saying like, Hey, if it, if it's open, go for it, but we're, we're still playing a three touch game.
Evan Silberstein (00:52:51):
Yeah. It's a hard thing in coaching. Cuz I know five years ago I was more like a guy. I was like, ah, like I just wanna play up and down. I want us to be able to set grit. I want my team to be able to set greats with focus on that's cheap,
Mark Burik (00:53:03):
Evan Silberstein (00:53:05):
Yeah. And then Katie definitely opened my eyes to that. You know, she they've got ones they've really good ones. You know, when the blockers are running up and it goes over their head in the back, like that is just it's Katie would bump, roll it over people and she could beat anybody with it. And then I watch, uh, Tia Mik at Cal poly. Like she's really good at it. She handsets over in that same direction. Not it's the back set is not as common. You know, I remember, uh, a couple of 'em had the kind of the prayer too. They kind of like get it's tight to the net and they just jam it back. It's good in transition, you know, this one every once in a while, the back release can score and then just two overhead. I mean look at way camp plays plays.
Mark Burik (00:53:44):
Oh my God. She's an on two ninja.
Evan Silberstein (00:53:47):
Yeah. So it's definitely like, it's a stretch in coaching, but I'm doing it more. I'm coming up with drills that, you know, different peppers that are too, you know, boom, boom, boom. Like, you know, how do we do things to kind of get our hand and our thinking to go quicker? So part of it is just trying to kind of the synapse, I guess, to be able to think that quickly part of it is in certain shape, let 'em be in a setting drill. And then if you have the two take it, you know, so you're setting to just a point, but then if you see a ball that you might wanna kind of practice on your two, okay. Practice two there and then just go back to the drill. So create some leniency in what maybe we're a little bit more rigidly focused drills to add, to add drills that are just purely too ball focused.
Evan Silberstein (00:54:30):
When I incentivize it, we do it and we do it in practice and we get really good at it. Then if I don't suddenly a day comes and I don't incentivize it, then we're not doing it. I'm like, Hey, we just incentivized all day yesterday. You guys are two ball Queens today. We're not incentivizing it. It's gone off the table. Right? The purpose is so that you can integrate you. Can't just be like on demand. You wanna integrate. So it, that the integration part is hard. They'll do it if we ask 'em, um, and they get good at it. And then it's, again's the ones, you know, the great two ball players, whether it's Kelly clays or Katie Spieler in very different ways are they're both great at it. They they've made it seamless, you know, so they practice it, but they know how to integrate it into games. And I think that's the surprise element always is the number one factor.
Mark Burik (00:55:13):
I always give that talk at our camps because it came from like personal pain. You work on something all practice long hour and a half, like 90 minutes, you know? And you're, you're wrapping this out. You just hit a bunch of cut shots, cut shots from here, cut shots from there. How do I deliver here? And then you say something like, okay, well now we're gonna play some Queens. And then the joke is that like, yes, shackles are off. I don't have to hit any cut shots. It's like, no, we just did that so that you can enter it into the game. Like the drills are there for a reason, they're there to have you insert them into competition. So don't just go. And like now it's game time now I'm free. Like we did this so that you can implement it. Not so that it's somewhat better, uh, when you need it, it's like establish a cut shot. Or, you know, if you're working on highlines or onto like establish it so that you feel confident in it right from the start.
Evan Silberstein (00:56:06):
Yeah. That, I think that's just that that's a, that's a coaching dilemma that we, we certainly face. And again, sometimes I, I do bonus point scenarios on top of drills. So kind of leading certain drills and then we'll get in a queen or we'll get in something and we can bonus it. So that at least we know we're good that they're gonna use it. You know, it kind of like, it, it forces their hand to do tho those directions. And then again, you take the shackles off and you kinda do what you do. And, uh, video is obviously helpful. And then there's always like the reverse learning. Like we play against a team. I mentioned, uh, Cal poly Tia. She's just good at it. Right. So she burns us. So now I'm forced as a coach to prep my players to defend it. So it actually kind of, it again, is that there's the survival forces us to get better.
Evan Silberstein (00:56:49):
Yeah. And not to say, well, we don't, we don't too ball. That's cheap. Like, yeah, you're gonna lose like that a lot. So how can I not lose to someone who's too balling? And I find it to be cheap, grand canyon plays a certain style where they're constantly pushing it. Certain players in the NCAA are long beach used to do it a little bit less now. Like, so they have certain signatures that they play. So part of it is book breaking out video and kind of creating game plans. So, okay. We might, we might shift our base. So sometimes it's, you know, we might like a center field base in some scenarios, but in other situations we need more wing basing, you know,
Mark Burik (00:57:21):
We got, oh, that's that's, I think that's important for people to hear. So you, you don't teach one specific style of defense you say against certain players or certain teams or scenarios, we enter our defender into the middle versus we send them right to their diagonal. Yeah.
Evan Silberstein (00:57:36):
I like to go to the middle in the beginning, I'm finding, I mean, I've kind of every year, every couple years, I'm kind of continuing to move. I listen to what Todd's doing. I watch different schools. I think there's a little more dancing in the back than is necessary. I don't think the hitters can see it that much at our level. So I think there's a little more dancing than it's my favorite. So you probably won't see us dance a lot. So a little more central as like a BA kind of a center field base is like often where we'll get, but again, if someone's too balling in a certain direction, like if I have a right side player and she's not overhead toing, so I might just come in and just kind of come in and just kind of center and then check the two and then come back, you know, and then come back and then get to my spot or not.
Evan Silberstein (00:58:21):
So I like to do things like that, or it might just be a certain call early show, you know, it's like, look, block the angle. Let's early, show the line. And then you're there for the two ball. Okay. You know, it's like an adaption. So you can do scenarios where you do early shows and you're there so that you also get the two ball. Um, and then maybe you kind of fake out to the angle and then you just stay on the line. So you've taken it away cuz you're just standing there. Um, so that might be after a timeout or something that we prep. It may not be for the entirety of a dual, but in certain scenarios or some, two ball hitters that are overhead. A lot of like left sides, you know, do they, they score like area five, right. They go away, but then they wanna cut back. But is there cut back really to area one? Or is there cut back down the middle? It's probably down. Right. They kind don't really get
Mark Burik (00:59:11):
Care of that coming from the reverse.
Evan Silberstein (00:59:13):
So you kind of start to say, well, but if it's blowing 20 mile an hour wind, well then I gotta get in a different spot. So like you kind of start to just give them a little bit of freedom on, Hey, we gotta go, let's check the cut back, you know? Or don't, don't over check the cut back. Cause it ain't gonna go. As far as she thinks it's gonna go, she's gonna try and spin it back, but it's gonna go to six. So you're like, okay, you just hover in six, you've got it there. And then you can move. So, uh, definitely something we thinking about again, verse certain opponents more than others and yeah, we have baselines that we use. And then just other things that we'll add in that we, that we find to be useful to defend certain situations. That's to me, that's adaptability. Just trying to figure out how to be better on defense.
Mark Burik (00:59:53):
Just a note guys, for anyone who, uh, is a little bit confused by what Evan just went through with, uh, zone one, six and five, these are indoor zones. So if you're facing the net, if you wanna rewind after you understand this and then play it again. So you get kind of a cue. If you're facing the net, the back right of your court of your court on your side of the net, that's one, the back middle of your court is six. The back left of your court is five. And the same thing, the reverse happens over there. So if I'm looking at a net on the other side, one zone, one is the far left corner zone six is the far middle and zone five is the far right? So if you guys want to knowing that, knowing where those little numbers are, cuz it comes from indoor, if you wanna rewind it and then here, and try to visualize what we're talking about then, uh, more than welcome, which is a little sometimes, sometimes we go a little over the head and they don't all have indoor training. Yeah,
Evan Silberstein (01:00:55):
Yeah. We gotta do a better job. I gotta do a better job. Uh, I guess pointing out the areas of the court right there. But yeah, I think a lot of people in volleyball tend to know 'em but yeah, I think increasingly though, you're seeing more and more different attacking zones set up. I think that some really kind of John Mayer guys, Stanford, others, uh, have really pushed that level where kind of getting into attacking zones and creating beach, attacking zones, um, along the net. And I think those are innovations and things that are, you know, helping to push the game forward. People are doing
Mark Burik (01:01:20):
Cool stuff. You know, a couple things like back to your defense. I, I changed the way I, I taught defense, you know, as younger coach, I guess mid twenties, I was like enter into the middle, be direct middle then after the set or like once you know, they're setting then shift personally, I've gone completely away from that. I've gone go to the position that you want them to see you in. You know that doesn't have to be middle. You don't have to hide the position. It's just a position you want them to see you in or that you're gonna get stable and just pay attention as hard as you can. And I think most of the onto defensive answers can come from Hey, you know, like if you were to lose a million dollars, if this person puts it over on one, two or three touches, what, how would you react for every single touch?
Mark Burik (01:02:05):
Right? Like somebody's like throwing like a glass ball that has, has a million dollars in it. And if it breaks on your side of the court, you don't get it. Like that type of mental intensity. I find helps people more. They just get surprised because they expect three touches and that's, that's when they lose. But just the mindset of somebody's always attacking me with every single touch even after I hit it, if I hit a cut shot and I think there's a chance that somebody might dig it. I don't wait to see if they dug it. I'm already sprinting back on defense. You know, I want to be waiting for them so that I can be reactive on defense. But I think so many players, they hit the shot. They say, oh, they cut it. Or they, they dug it and they try to check out the dig and then they say, oh, well the set's kind of rushing. And then finally like after the set, then they're trying to get back to defense. Yeah. And you're already at a huge disadvantage there. So I I'm more like getting players go. If you think you might get Doug, as soon as you contact the ball, get your butt back to your next de defensive position, whether you're a blocker or defender.
Evan Silberstein (01:03:06):
Yeah. That's great advice, mark. I mean, I like the million dollar analogy I wish someone would offered me a million. I would grab that thing.
Evan Silberstein (01:03:14):
So yeah, I, it reminds me of kind of a camp or I'm out again on my life here. I got like a camp analogy that I use. Sometimes I have a camp analogy that I'll use as like a tiger and a jungle, you know, like you're gonna go for your prey. So it's like that kind of, that level of, uh, it's a pregnant hesitancy, like you're just on the edge of like doing something. And that's, I think I'm thinking when you're talking about defense at that level, and those are again that goes back to habits, right? Can we train those things in? Can those become habits to, so cuz a tenacious defender's one who's always ready. So can we train someone to come in and enter and be ready, you know, enter and be ready and then swing and then come back and be ready, you know? And then there are two and then be ready for the three. How do you keep kind of being ready? Being ready? Those, there is actually some room I think, to, to change those as habits.
Mark Burik (01:04:06):
Do you think there'd be any value in you? You establishing a rule for university of Hawaii, that if somebody ever throws a ball on your court, during the point you don't stop, you dig it like there's an outside just ball thrower, like a random one coming across a board or like an assistant coach who at any given time can just Chuck a ball over like teaching, like, and then making a fun, like, uh, pushups or burpees or something out of it.
Evan Silberstein (01:04:31):
I have a fun one that I learned you and I both share the, the New York history. So I mean, I can rap here. Maybe someone that, you know, one of the first club gyms that I ever used to go to was with a guy named Rick Cole. And Rick is an athletic director at all these places, huge volleyball guy. Son's actually playing a Pepperdine now out, uh, Trey, his daughter's at duke and just a great, great volleyball. Mine came from long island to Western New York, then back to long island, coach Dowling, Stanford, all these places. And we, I went in his gym and it was a thing that he like to drop the ball. He goes, know what that is, what's that? And he goes that's point. So there was no like it's this little JV, you know, kind of scenario. But any time they hit the ball hit, the floor was a point. So no matter what drill, when we shagging, so you're doing a, you know, a circle drill, you're doing a server receive drill, you're doing a setting, drill, whatever kids are constantly scrambling, like diving to grab the ball.
Mark Burik (01:05:26):
I love that
Evan Silberstein (01:05:27):
Ball hits the ground is point doesn't matter where that point grab it like million dollar balls,
Mark Burik (01:05:31):
Even when you're shagging, like shagging point, its like boom point shagging, pushups runs, whatever.
Evan Silberstein (01:05:38):
Yeah. Yeah. Ball hits the ground, everything stops we're on the wall. Like, and then kids are running after to grab that ball because that's the point so that I haven't, I don't, I haven't remembered that in a while, but maybe I'll have to bring back the old, uh, right there long island on the academy and see if, uh, see how the point goes. So sometimes along island there's a little different than the Hawaiians. We got a little different pace out here, push that on it, on each
Mark Burik (01:06:01):
Other. So my brother's a Lieutenant in the FD N Y um, and he just moved out to Hawaii Oahu and he's, I think now just getting, you know, used to like a little bit slower and how small the island is and that everybody's a cousin of a cousin of somebody who, you know, so he is like, you can't talk negatively about anybody because everybody is like so intertwined and, and it's a very small, like, like kind of small high school drama in a way. But he goes, the whole, the whole island is connected somehow as a family and he's learning how to slow down, but also how to be, I guess, kinder than he needed to be in like the firehouse in New York and Queens and Brooklyn and Bronx.
Evan Silberstein (01:06:46):
Yeah. It's a little different yeah. Good insights and yeah, that's, that's live on an island. We're all interconnected. So we know that. And uh, it's fun. Hopefully I did a good job making a lot of people sound good out here today.
Mark Burik (01:06:55):
Yeah. And I don't wanna keep you too much longer. I, I do just wanna tackle, you know, we've got 15 other questions on the list though. We haven't even touched, but I, what I do wanna ask is, you know, as somebody who played in the nineties and then I think early two thousands, right? You had to learn a certain way and you were learning probably in New York where your best role model was maybe somebody around the neighborhood who also played open because there weren't coaches at that time. No coaches. And I think a lot of adults run into the no coach situation. That's where they're thankful for the stuff that we do because they're like, yes, somebody's reaching out to us and saying, this is how you play the game. So is there anything that you learned early as a player that you teach completely differently than you learned back then that was like wrong that you learned as a player or, or just different because the game changed that now you teach and you're like, man, I, I will never teach that to my players, even though that's how I learned it.
Evan Silberstein (01:07:50):
Yeah. I think a little bit we were talking about in the two ball stuff is a pretty good example of that, you know, whereas it was, it wasn't really part of the game and sort of the way that we would do our preparation for two ball or just that it just, wasn't something we had to pay attention to nearly as much is a factor there. Things that I would wanna unlearn. I mean, I didn't have coaches on the beach, so there's, I wish I would've learned how to have better attack, timing and spacing. when I was learning, you know, I think the tendency to be early or the tendency to take kind of like weird angles, it, that was, you know, for a smaller player, getting under the ball a little bit was something that would just be a little more natural and people would just adapt. Sometimes they'd play a little lower, a little smaller on the east coast, Florida, and everyone's kind of playing low. I wish I had more sense of time and
Mark Burik (01:08:39):
Space. If you could remember how you played it. I know it's, it's not always easy. Like we didn't have easy film back then, but if you were to look at yourself as a player and give yourself some specific cues, instead of like better timing or better spacing, what would you be telling your former self in terms of how to time it better or how to S space it better?
Evan Silberstein (01:08:58):
Yeah, we, we use pop, I use pop a little bit now in my coaching, which is point of preparation. Okay. So preparing to hit, you know, so like allowing myself to kind of, I think I would be also a little bit more creative in my attacking zones. Elvis helped me with that a little bit. He would pull me into the middle a little bit and I didn't really understand it, but I was playing with a really high level guy. So I just was able to, you know, this kind of like pass point of preparation. So either pass kind of like a, like, you know, drag in like a little bit of a lateral and forward, cause I'm kind of small, so I won't have a 15 foot approach. It might be 10. So how do I kind of pass get to my spot, kind of get really kind of like a lot of potential energy and then take off where pass and then fly way out and then try and make my move from there.
Evan Silberstein (01:09:44):
So more of that being really purposeful on where I'd wanna start my approach from and to do it with really, really purposeful momentum. Uh, cause again, it's a little, just a tendency I think, just to get a little, little stuck in early and then just that feel kind of in, and then, oh shoot. Now everything's behind me a little bit. So I'd say as if I went back and watch myself, I would do more preparation to attack and maybe more Zoneal attacking, you know, pass and then take that slot and pull it all the way around to the backside. Didn't, wasn't really part of the game when I played.
Mark Burik (01:10:18):
So you would try to tell yourself to hit, uh, per play, like on a different area of the, no
Evan Silberstein (01:10:25):
We're along the net. You know, so again, as I evolved, I got more of a middle and a wide, but I think as I, if I were to go back, I would probably have evolved back as well too. And I would've been a little bit more, a little less angular to my middle and a little bit more pull in and then straight ahead
Mark Burik (01:10:43):
As a left side or a right side
Evan Silberstein (01:10:44):
As a right side
Mark Burik (01:10:45):
As a right side. Okay. So as a right side, you would make that, like that hard L straight shuffle, then go straight in
Evan Silberstein (01:10:51):
Closer to an L more than like, kind of like the like kind of like the X. And I think when, even when I went middle, it was still a little X kind. I get kind of turned. Whereas I think what I've seen as a coach is, well, yeah, it's really important. Especially California, like a lot of that side wind, it's just critical to be able to kind of get that feeling of L so that everything's in front of you. And then if you wanna go back to the wind, you, you're not like kind of like turned way out to do it and you have a little more vision for the right sides.
Mark Burik (01:11:20):
Do you teach that right side? Should have that soft angle towards the middle. I mean more now I'm, I'm trying to get some players to not a hard angle at all. Not, not anything like the left side would come in, but just a soft enough angle to where your, at least your toes face the back middle of the court. So like a little 15 degree sliver instead of that straight on, or sometimes players like go from the middle towards the antenna to swing. They almost line up in a I formation. But do you teach a straight L or are you okay with your players sort of taking that soft angle into that? Yeah,
Evan Silberstein (01:11:54):
No hard, fast, no hard and fast rules. I think some, some really will take to it and then are able to exercise at others. It's a little less natural, so I'm just happy to get them, you know, a couple feet in. So again, I'm just teaching each person to kind of like what their sort of range is, what their passing accuracy is to like how, how consistent they can be at that point. So again, I, I call it pop, so it's pass pop, you know, it's like pass, pop, go, you know, but it not pass, go . Yeah. Yeah. It all kind of happens at one. Just the feeling that there is sort of an, an area
Mark Burik (01:12:30):
Like three faces pass, get to your spot, then it's an approach it's not passing approach.
Evan Silberstein (01:12:35):
Yeah. And I think for beginners or adults, that's something that they always are like, whoa, like, wow, I never really knew that I didn't get that. So to me, if I'm out there talking to like your, a players or your B players that are in Hermosa that are coming to visit, I would be take a little time after, you know, you know, pass forward, you know, give yourself some time to get, you know, or be active to get to the best spot and then deep breath. And then you can really kind of fire in all the steps of your approach to make it happen from there. I think those things would've been helpful for me as an attacker and probably would be really helpful for, you know, people that are learn, no one ever teaches, no one ever taught us. right. I had never had a beach volleyball coach in my whole life and I've played for 25 years and I've played all over the country, all over the world and there I'd never had a coach. Um, so it's fun to do it. And it's fun that it's become a thing in the last like 10 or 15 years, cuz I don't think I really, that wasn't part of the game in the nineties. No one, I mean maybe the very, very
Mark Burik (01:13:35):
Top off. Yeah. When it's funny, because if there were coaches, then they would've made a lot more money today's coach is six ever, you know,
Evan Silberstein (01:13:43):
The guys, everyone used to kind of try and keep it more in, right. It was a little bit more insular of a culture, right. It was, you know, the kind of the haves and the have nots. And so people understood things and they were obviously pointing each other in the right direction. But I don't, I think the, the game has gotten a lot more magnanimous. It's gotten a lot more of, a lot more giving. It's just bigger, you know, it's global and then Americans, I think real, you know, you had, you know, DOD go to Italy to coach those guys, you know, they started seeing wow, like our best
Mark Burik (01:14:10):
Evan Silberstein (01:14:11):
After, you know, our best guys are getting sought after, by these other countries. How does that, we're obviously in a poll position here, we have the most understanding on the game. So how can we start to use that as a resource to kind of like feed our own. And then obviously as the college and the club situation developed that was coaching, you know, all of my guys that played against when I was a kid or not all of them, but a lot of 'em are coaching. Now they coaching clubs, they coaching college. There's a lot of guys that have gone on. So
Mark Burik (01:14:38):
I think it's funny. They have to like kind of go back to school. Like even if you were like crushing it, you're winning every open in Ohio or Florida, you realize, oh man, there's, there's a technique to how I won. I just did a bunch of stuff naturally. Like I look at one of my best friends, like, uh, I'm gonna knock him right now, but uh, Shane Donahue, who's crushing things on the east coast. But if you look at his design and how much trouble he puts himself into a lot, uh, he could be a ton more effective with a little bit of extra like offensive design and technique. And he wouldn't have to bail himself out with straight up crazy athleticism. Yeah. Which he does. But he's so athletic that he, you know, kind of has a unique style of, of, of how he plays that he probably wouldn't coach and he might not even know it, but he gets it done. So what do you,
Evan Silberstein (01:15:27):
Yeah, it's, uh, it's definitely different coming out of the playing mode and the playing mind into the coach's mode and the coach's mind. And I think you see it in other sports NBA and you know, and major leagues. It's not always just the purest best players that make the best coaches. You know, for me, I was hundred percent not. I played all the way up to the top. So I've played against almost every great player in my generation I've played against in the us. So I'm like I played against everybody. So I've had an opportunity to play against people. And I did it for as a little guy. It's like doc rivers, you know, like Byron Scott, Mugsy, BOS, all little guys, Steve Kerr, you know, like all the coaches, like the little guys, you know, they're going because they had to watch, we had to learn that, you know, that's the other thing I think about not the way that I most learned the game when I didn't have a coach was watching.
Evan Silberstein (01:16:18):
And I said always wanted to beat that next guy, but also how can I learn? How can I see what mark B's doing? How can I see what Shane Don's doing? How can I see what these guys are doing and be like, not only how can I beat it, but Ooh, how do I like want to like make that some of my, you know, part of my game. So I think there was sort of an emulation kind of feeling that, um, wanting to kind of become more like certain players, what I saw 'em on TV or at pro events or whatever, not only wanting to beat them, which was highly competitive and motivating, but also wanting to get a little bit more like them also. So those, those were kind of like fed side by side to kind of kept my growth going.
Mark Burik (01:16:54):
Yeah. And I, I always wanna like hesitate with, with that advice. I think it's good advice, but I think we just filmed something for Instagram today where I said, you guys need to stop looking at Phil. You know, you need to stop looking at Sarah at, at Alex Kleiman because you're not in the 1% of height, you know? So your selection will be different if you're five, five, you check out Katie Spieler, you know, you check out Carissa and you look for players that look and move similar to you. Instead of trying to select from players that like you would need significant amounts of surgery and robotics to get you to, to, to move like them. And I want people to follow the best players and learn what they're doing well, but also don't try to do what somebody who is physically on a completely different page than you, you know, pick up something that you could use from their game, but know the things that you can't use from their
Evan Silberstein (01:17:57):
Game. Yeah, totally. Those are good insights, mark.
Mark Burik (01:18:00):
Evan Silberstein (01:18:01):
I've never seen it go out so many times. Um, yeah, no, they're good insights and I think it's realistic. You know, what you're pointing at is if you're dealing with athletes that are, you know, don't not big jumpers, how can they look in certain places? Maybe they are big jumpers, but they're underage or they're super tall. And they, you know, there are certain things, yeah. Maybe you need to watch, you know, Theo, you know, you go and pick some stuff up off of, you know, certain guys. So yeah, definitely finding people. And I what's cool about the college game now is that there's just a lot more people to watch. You know, there's the world tour. There's just more people to watch. You can find a lot more to actually do it. Whereas, you know, when we were growing up, it, you know, it was on TV, but a little bit, it's the very, very top guys, you know, playing at the end. So I think now there's so much video that's in the world. Video is a big difference, you know, for, for coaching, for scouting, for recruiting, for making development. I think the, the ability to tape yourself and we didn't video anything, I barely have any video. I have one VHS. Yeah. That has been translated to a disc playing bland and OA like in Belmar, you know, it's all chalky and it's like video. It's like, great. I, you
Mark Burik (01:19:10):
Know, you've got that. Yeah.
Evan Silberstein (01:19:12):
It was like one barely pictures at all. You know, it was like, it just was a different era. Whereas every, every athlete now that I, you know, that I see, I get a hundred emails, you know, in a week from athletes that have YouTube channels and Vimeos and highlights and full matches. And they've got everything set up and they're like 14 years old from Texas. You're like, wow, crazy. So it is just way more footage now. So lots get lost in there. But I think it's definitely a great tool for people to use, to, to not only look at themselves, but look at others and slow things down and, and see how they can, you know, make improvements and adjustments to their dance.
Mark Burik (01:19:47):
Okay. I, so I get just, I promise two more questions. I know it's I know it's been a minute, but it's a good conversation. We haven't stopped, you know, with that recruitment, is there something that parents or coaches are doing wrong or just wasting their time on when it comes to contacting a coach or showing them videos or creating an Instagram account? Like, is it right for them to just send you an Instagram link of all their highlights or a YouTube video? Or should they send a popcorn when they send you a DVD or a USB? Like what's the best way for somebody to get your attention as coach and what's the wrong way.
Evan Silberstein (01:20:21):
Yeah. You know, it gotta be respectful of our, it, it it's catchy. Right. Cause they know that we don't have a ton of time. Right. So long winded, like drafts can be, you know, like a lot of storytelling can be kind of hard to follow, even if it's like poignant and sweet, like it can be a little bit much. So, uh, if I'm talking to recruits, brevity matters, I think brevity and video can be useful. Also. You don't, I don't need 20 videos. Give me a highlight and then a link that I can watch games if I want, you know, like, so kind of like that. If I'm more interested in there,
Mark Burik (01:20:57):
Should it be on, on Instagram? Should it be on YouTube? Should it be on a drive, a Google drive? Like, is there something that's YouTube
Evan Silberstein (01:21:02):
Is easy. You know, sometimes they have scenarios where they have to down. If you wanna make it as, you know, you're you on a podcast, you wanna make it as user friendly as possible. So it, it really, the coach is the user at that point. So you wanna make something that's gonna translate as easily as possible for the coach to say my inbox, I press a link. I don't have to download it. I don't have to store it. I don't wanna do any of
Mark Burik (01:21:24):
That. Okay. Open my Dropbox folder and then reinitiate my
Evan Silberstein (01:21:28):
Mark Burik (01:21:30):
Evan Silberstein (01:21:31):
This is important there again, there's as you get further into it, as much as I say, the long-winded is annoying, but some I've read amazing stories. I love to hear the stories. It just kind of remains on like time and place. The more that they can be aware of where we're at in our schedule, we're competing. Hey, great game. The other day versus UCLA. I'm sure you guys are, you know, tired on the road. Just wanna give you a quick check in here's my highlights have a great day gone, not, oh, here's this greatest story about me that's ever happened. And it's an hour after we just lost that match. I don't wanna see it. Like it just not the right thing at the right time. And
Mark Burik (01:22:07):
That takes a, and then it's gonna fall down that inbox to it never gets seen
Evan Silberstein (01:22:11):
Inbox with this huge scenario that is tone deaf to what is actually real for me. So a little bit of environmental awareness. What's my schedule. Who are we playing? Is it off season where I'm gonna go recruit or coach? Like usually when they do those little things, it's a little, okay. Like they're paying attention to what's going on. I'm not like one, you just copied and pasted 20 different bulk emails, a beautiful letter, but you sent it to 20 coaches. We can tell, you know, so little bit of nuance directly to the program, user friendliness on video. And then yet it's a fine line between being consistent and being kind of annoying. You don't feel like I gotta get back to this kid just to tell them to stop I'm out. Like, you know, it's like, usually I like to kind of, you just kind of slow motion, look through things.
Evan Silberstein (01:23:00):
And cuz a lot of them are years and years in advance. I get emails from 20 fives and 20 sixes, you know, they're young. So I can't do anything with it. It's just okay. It's in my file of 20 fives. I know when I see ex coach on the beach, I say, okay. Yeah. Well I got on my watch list and it's real basic as we get closer into the recruiting time, you know, the 20 fours of the last six months. Okay. We're getting ready. So we're really start to kind of contour lists like kind of fragment people, see where they're at and you know, how, who they might help us. And then, then we open into communication back and forth so well
Mark Burik (01:23:34):
With, without, you know, like being able to keep it brief with the, the email or the link, which I think yes, brilliant love when they get to the point quickly. And I'm more likely to actually look at that email. If you send me a page, I like, as soon as I open like a DM and I see four paragraphs, I'm like, whew, , I'll open that later. And then I never open it, you know? But how is there any way other than that for an athlete or somebody to just stand out, like it literally in my era, I was in college and I sent a bag of popcorn with my D V D you know, just like, yeah, something, whatever, like, like sour patch kids or something. But now it would be kind of a headache for somebody to like ship stuff out. I don't know. Or maybe that would make them stand out more, but
Evan Silberstein (01:24:22):
I've gotten letters before I've gotten some really heartfelt letters before and those are sweet. I can't say that I've recruited those kids necessarily. Like it wasn't distinguished, but it definitely like, uh, they're more likely to get a response. Okay. You know, when I'm able to, they're gonna be treated in that way. I can't, we can't get back to every athlete that shows interest. It's just not really practical anymore. There's so many. So they're more likely to get a response when they've gone out of their way. Oh thank you for the lovely letter and the thing they can't, you don't wanna get like bought, you know, you know, like trying to get like stuff that doesn't really like work it's like outside the rules almost so you know, but a letter can be cool, but again, well placed, well time, regular communication that is, uh, courteous, respectful and aware of what the coaches, what someone's best guess what might be real.
Evan Silberstein (01:25:09):
Oh, thanks. Good luck. You're having a good season. Good luck on the upcoming matches. So a little bit of something that contours that they're following that they're interested in, what our story is. Also. Instagram is cool. I, again, I'm not personally doing a ton there and that sometimes my assistant coaches go down those roads cuz you want, it's a good way to inventory. What's going on. Keep your Instagram clean, you know like it's available, you're following our stuff, right? So you're gonna follow, uh, beach volleyball, but then you are gonna post on your thing that you're out drinking with your buddies high school party. It's not gonna like pro like prove goods. So just know that your profiles are very much public and then that we will spend time, you know, in taking a glance, you don't wanna have that kind of double personality. So that's just kind of pitfalls to avoid. Certainly. Cause I've seen things on Instagrams that I'm like, oh whoa, like, wait a second. This is a different kid. That's emailing me. So at least gets it. Doesn't like end the deal. But it certainly gets me to think more or ask more questions. So they should, they should certainly be, uh, aware of what their public profiles look like and leave them
Mark Burik (01:26:13):
Public. So is a once a month tag like a like, is that too much? Like once every two months, like that soft little less than a paragraph email cuz I know my wife's a stunt woman and part of their job as a stunt woman to get jobs is they have to keep constant contact with stunt coordinators. So that you're just kind of always present of mind when a job might show up. So part of her process is like finding the stunt coordinators that she loves, wants to work for and shooting those people in email to say like, Hey, saw this movie, the action sequence was sick. And just like you said, you know, she's looking for things to know that they appreciate and love about that coordinator and how they would be open to work if they have it. But that's part of the process. So is it a once a month thing a once a two month, is there a right timing? And I know that the timing is important, but is there me? I would say like no way more than once a month.
Evan Silberstein (01:27:07):
Yeah. Not more than once a month, you know, definitely not more than once a month. It could be seasonal, you know, there's always like there and it might be different centers. Hey, what's this latest with camps. Hey, you know, I noticed you guys did that really cool trip in the fall. That was awesome. I'm gonna come see you season. Then we're getting closer to June 15th because they know that we're gonna be able to respond to them. That might be like, Hey, I know I reached out a couple weeks. Just really wanted to let you know, like you kind of like put like an exclamation point on like a series of communications. So yeah, I would say not more than monthly unless there was, unless there's dialogue, if there's dialogue back and forth, then just answering questions, providing information, asking questions, you know, that's the big thing is I always try to encourage recruits to, Hey, you have power, you have leverage, it's all yours now.
Evan Silberstein (01:27:52):
Cause that changes when you sign or you do these other things, your leverage is gonna shift. So be confident, ask questions. I want athletes that are gonna, that are gonna ask me hard questions cuz I know they're thinking and not just trying to yes, yes, yes, yes. Their way in the door. So I think it's important for them to be, you know, confident and express their, you know, respectfully just, you know, ask good questions and those things engage dialogue and find personal ways to connect those it's all relationship management does come down to a little bit of who they know, um, if they know other coaches and things like that. So that's just kind of for them to, to, you know, kind of work through. Sure.
Mark Burik (01:28:29):
Okay. Final, final, final question. You talked about TCU and long beach having a certain style that they play and I'm actually, uh, talking to Mike tomorrow, tomorrow, or next week again, I'm on my calendar. So it should be fun, but are there any clubs you don't have to name them, but do you look at clubs and say, I know what product that club turns out. So if I'm looking for this type of player, I'm gonna look to that club first. Do you look at clubs as, as a company that turns out specific products that you would be interested in or do you look at doesn't matter what club, whatever I'm just going to select from the entire country's pool of athletes.
Evan Silberstein (01:29:09):
Yes. Yes. There are products that are developed at a certain clubs again is, you know, and some of them I've mentioned, you know, part of it's geography, you know, there's just pure geography involved. If a club is from, you know, Manhattan beach, it's pulling in a certain level of trainers and also a certain environment of athletes gonna get the high level beach IQ players out of this club, that's coming from the California beach, then there's different, you know? I mean there's yeah, I could easily name two clubs, but I think I won't and just say yeah, that there's certainly clubs and again, it's relationship management and if a club changes hands or if a certain director is not involved as much, the product there might change or the relationship there might change. But so I, I pride myself really on savoring and connecting those relationships.
Evan Silberstein (01:29:55):
I'm gonna be in California next week. I'm going to practices. Um, so the is just go to practices and just, you know, cause there are people I know and that I trust and I want to go and look, I have one or two athletes I wanna see, but I wanna see your 20 sixes. And so we develop a longer standing kind of conversation there. So it's not to say that if you're not at a top club with a top reputation and a top coach that knows the coach at Hawaii, that you can't get recruited. We still very much have our eyes open to the best athletes, to the highest character kids. Those are gonna kind of show up from all over, but there's some tried and true that we can go through, whether it's in California, Arizona, Florida, for us, it's geography a little bit too, as it's cheaper to come from the west coast than it is to come from Texas.
Evan Silberstein (01:30:36):
So, but I do go to Texas and there's great clubs there. So I just know I gotta have a, it's almost like an international athlete. If they're coming from Texas, I've gotta be able to be more, you know, have more scholarship money or they're more of like a walk on route and is it really worth it for them to wanna do that? So they, they tend to be kind of higher nuts if they're coming from further, cuz there's just more that goes into it. Mm. But yeah, those relationships as college coaches really matter and yeah, we can certainly trust the coaches. You know, a lot of the coaches that are running clubs, I mean, Jacobs got Jake, Gibb's got a club dos have a club Fano and Holly have clubs. I mean, they're gonna get trained at a certain level. You know, what's coming to a degree. It doesn't mean that all their athletes are by any means are gonna qualify at that level.
Mark Burik (01:31:19):
But you know what they're told and you, and you've experienced it with athletes before. So you, you just say like, Hey, they have this knowledge base because this gets filtered down to all their coaches and all their athletes. I think club directors miss on that, that they form a club and they let coaches do what they want. And then, you know, they can't go to, to a college coach and say, you know how the last one turned out well it's because of this process. Not because of, of whatever. I, I just think, yeah, I, I think more club directors should focus on what product are they turning out? How does the process create that product? And it's not just getting more coaches getting more courts it's what's teaching what teaching system. Yeah. Are you utilizing and what culture do you create?
Evan Silberstein (01:32:01):
I think beach is still small enough too, that it's, the coaches are pretty involved with what's going on. You know, it, they're just more involved with what's going on, you get in the indoor club and there's 40 teams or something. So it's kind of easier to kind of dilute, whereas on beach there, you know, there's 20 kids, there's 40 kids, there's 30 kids coaches there all the time. So there's a little bit of a sense of, you know, if it, if it's these clubs that I'm talking about, if it's Patty DOD, if it's Matts and if it's dance styles, here's people that I know and trust I've worked with them for 10 years. I know they're great coaches. I know how they do what they're doing. I, I can trust them in our conversation when they're talking about their athletes. And I can also trust that their athletes are gonna have certain things checked off. Um, that may be interesting for us too. So again, it's, for us, it's also similarly around kind of cultivating those relationships and, and keeping, uh, keeping up to date and in touch and you know, and just using, using the leverage of those relationships to just, you know, try and create opportunities for athletes. And there's a lot of 'em, , they're getting really good these days, so, uh, it's making it harder and harder for us to sift through and find the very best cause a lot
Mark Burik (01:33:06):
Of good ones, man, Evan, this was a great talk. Uh, I could keep going because there's so much more, but maybe we could just push it to another time and, and get you on again and then get through the, uh, the second 80% of our list. But yeah, I, I appreciate your time so much and your insight, super unique insight as a player, who's come up and then like the transition from mainland to Hawaii and all the success of your school and your teams and your programs, and then definitely how clear you are on all of your knowledge, what you need, what you want and where you're headed. It's, uh, it's a, it's a pleasure to see somebody who's got direction, you know. Cool. Thanks. Yeah, really. Thank you so much for your time. And it, do you have anything, any last words or any last standing advice or just goodbye or places to follow you or anything? Yeah.
Evan Silberstein (01:34:00):
Uh, so yeah, and thanks for having me on, I had heard a little bit about the podcast. I got to hear a bunch on the way in you guys are doing a great job. I've always seen your volleyball camps and I think that's neat. I love that you're reaching out to adults. I think you've kind of created a really neat niche on that side to kind of keep people grown. I'm happy to see New York people in volleyball, um, and having success in Hermosa. It's not easy out there as you know, so I think you've put a really, really good footprint. So I'm happy to support you and find some time in the future to conver you know, kind of hopefully have this conversation again, you know, in six months or next year. And then over the years as you guys grow up, um, I'm, I'm happy to build a relationship you and so, yeah, it's stoked.
Evan Silberstein (01:34:38):
Hopefully some people listen, hopefully some people benefit it. I'm around. I'm not so much on the social medias anymore, but obviously, uh, beach volleyball is our teams one. Um, that's where my focus is primarily on Instagram. You can find me personally, Evan Todd, 10, 13, I'm on LinkedIn with my name. So if folks wanna find me there or just email me can find me at Hawaii. Athletics is, uh, Evan SI hawaii.edu, happy to always field emails, just continue to grow the sport. It's we have an amazing, amazing sport and the growth is awesome and it's only coming up from now. So it's pretty neat to see what the last 10 years have given us and what's the next 10 years gonna give. And then beyond that, I think with, uh, so many great people involved, it's, uh, sky's the limit for beach volleyball. So it's fun to be kind of taking care of my little part of the world out here in Hawaii. It doesn't get, doesn't get much better than this. So
Mark Burik (01:35:29):
I saw a couple of your pictures on Instagram. It just looks like you live the life, man. Every picture's a nice sunset or a beach, so love it.
Evan Silberstein (01:35:38):
Cool, man. Well, thanks for having me all, mark. I appreciate
Mark Burik (01:35:40):
It. Absolutely. Evan have a great day. Thank you so much. All
Evan Silberstein (01:35:42):
Guys go both.
Mark Burik (01:35:44):
See? Yeah, guys. Cool. Cool, cool interview. Loved talking love, you know what some people are so just clear, they know what they're talking about. They know where they're going and they know what works and doesn't work. And like Evan absolutely presented that. And it was, it's really a pleasure when, when I, I don't know how to, how to say it, other than the clarity, uh, that he had. And he's at the helm of one of the most prestigious programs in the country, if not the world. And I think they're in really good hands. So pretty fantastic. Just a couple of announcements. We're, we're starting this. And a lot of you listening might know about our complete player program online and we are actually starting a better at beach coaching certification. So if that is something that you're interested in, we have courses, we have extensive courses in how to learn and how to teach the game.
Mark Burik (01:36:37):
And if you are at all in any way, interested in taking a better at each coaching certification, we will be starting that in the coming months. And we'll be running some coaching specific clinics. If you ever want to do that, just go ahead and visit our homepage. We have a link tree, just click under the coaches tab. And it'll take you through a few questions that get answered and you will end up in the right place to know where you should be in, in terms of getting one of the coaching clinics or doing our online coaching certification, uh, so that we can help more players, uh, and more coaches have better tools to be able to, you know, move the sport forward and share the game in a good way. And, and hopefully one day get some younger players, uh, under the watchful I of Evan get in touch, visit our website and you know where we are guys. Thank you so much for listening. Pleasure talking with Evan, reach out to him if you want some advice. And of course, you know, we're always welcome. Thank you. Have a great day and we'll see you on the.